CBS Fenders, crap or a natural progression on where Leo was going?

[Blazer]

It's funny to see how Seventies Fenders have been labeled the Black sheep of the bunch, with ill fitting neck joints, three bolt neck attachments, thick poly finishes, heavy Ash bodies and the infamous bullet trussrod adjusters.

A late seventies Stratocaster.

Many of those attributes were blamed on the R&D staff appointed by CBS and has since been adopted by many to be the truth. But was it really the R&D team or was it Leo Fender himself who came up with those infamous specs that gave Seventies Fenders a bad name? Because the earliest occasions of the three bolt neck appeared on prototype guitars made by Leo Fender himself in 1968.

And after Fender started Musicman guitars what did we see?


Thick poly finishes, Ash bodies, three bolt necks and bullet adjusters.

And when Fender left Musicman and started G&L what did we see?


Ash bodies, thick poly finishes, three bolt necks and Bullet adjusters.

If you look at the specs from an engineer's eye like Fender himself did, they made perfect sense. Fifties and sixties Fenders due to their thin finishes were prone to flaking, Poly is much more durable. With a fifties or sixties fender, you'd have to remove the neck to adjust the trussrod, with the Bullet adjuster you didn't need to do so anymore. The three bolt neck and the micro tilt meant that you could change the angle of the neck in the body without removing the neck to shim it in the neck pocket. When looked in that light, those specs that make seventies Fenders so loathed were actually pretty smart but not everybody saw it that way.

So were the hated Seventies Fenders really victims of poor CBS R&D decisions or was it Leo Fender himself trying to go forwards with his ideas?

[Trem]

i dont know, but that black strat is

[Grandturk]

I think its funny that 15-20 years ago, you couldn't give big headstock 3-bolt strats away. They weren't just considered black sheep - they were considered garbage - I think my first MIJ strat cost more new then a used 70's strat. My guitar teacher had piles of them scattered around his basement.

I played a few, they seemed to rip OK.

[Axewielder]

The Malmsteen/Blackmore factor makes me gay for the big headstock, I must say. Also the tuxedo look is cool. The rest of the 70's vibe I could take or leave. I really don't like the "headboard" look of those natural ones.

[Cygnus X1]

The same theory could be argued about Leo's amps.
From the lower powered easily saturated Tweed era, the on to cleaner and more powerful Blackfaces.

CBS continued that logical path until it was nearly impossible to find a Fender amp that had any resemblance to a "dirty rock machine".
I've played a few Music Man amps and they have that Silverface sound. If Leo's Tweeds were so great, why didn't he just go back to it?

[Newc]

From the short time I've spent with screwcounting nitpicking whiney-ass Strat Snobs, and I mean shorter than short, the bitching was basically because the 70's Strats were different from the originals. Period.

Cosmetically (head size), as well as structurally (finish type, body wood, etc), they were not 100% identical to the ones Buddy Holly and "everyone else" used, so instead of welcoming an attempt at progress, they shunned the new ideas and hoarded the old ones. While it paid off financially for them, they're still douchebags for expecting someone who was obviously not the type of guy to settle for "whatever's going on right now" - Leo Fender - to stop progressing both as an artist/luthier and an engineer and settle for "whatever's going on right now".

It's easy for someone with no clue to say "well, the original Strats were perfect, there was no need to change", but it should have been painfully obvious that L.F. was looking to improve his designs and supported him in it. But then, these are the same moronic types who can't understand that a true artist is never truly satisfied with their work. It's been true since way before Mozart and Van Gogh.

Obviously these people are not artists, and know nothing of being an artist, because they refuse to accept that one simple fact.

[Flatpicker]

I always thought the problem was not from Leo's design, but from the inconsistent build quality. The 3 bolt seems like a great idea until you factor in the slop from manufacturing techniques CBS used.

[mccullpl]

Out of curiosity, why didn't people like the bullet truss rod? seems like a great improvement to me.

Pat

[goodwood]

One of my favourite guitars is a 2006 USA Fender '70s Strat. It has a 4 bolt neck, the headstock is big and it has the truss rod adjuster at the nut (not bullet) and a nice, tight neck pocket fit.

Everything is balance. Some ideas work well and some just need tweaking. I'm glad I don't have to remove the neck to tweak the truss rod every time the seasons change but I'm glad there is no visible bullet. Some may like the bullet.

I find it akin to the original Jacksons with Kahler tremolos...the nut BETWEEN the locking nut and the bridge? Come on...ridiculous idea. Could they be made to work ok? Yes but that's not the point. It takes about an hour and a half to make a really well-cut nut...why have it there if it isn't required?

Design elements often change like any fashion. The bottom line is the old like "if it works for you".

[SEEGERMANY]

A good friend of mine has a 1978 Fender Strat and it's the heaviest guitar, by far, that I've ever held. It makes my doubleneck Gibson feel like a toy. He absolutely loves it!

[Axewielder]

What's the idea behind the 3-bolt neck? I don't buy the "pivoting" argument. The only design that would allow pivoting would be a 1-bolt neck. Am I missing something? As a side note, my G&L ASAT has a 3-bolt neck and seems stable.

[Blazer]

What's the idea behind the 3-bolt neck? I don't buy the "pivoting" argument. The only design that would allow pivoting would be a 1-bolt neck. Am I missing something? As a side note, my G&L ASAT has a 3-bolt neck and seems stable.

The idea was that the lowest of the three bolts would be inserted in a metal "negative" in the neck so it wouldn't strip out. if you unfasten the lowest bolt and insert a hex key in the hole just below it, you'll find a small bolt there with which you can subtly change the angle of the neck in the neck pocket, similar to shimming it with either a piece of Cardboard or a piece of wood veneer. But without the need to take the neck off.

This picture of a Jazz bass without the neck, shows the micro tilt bolt.

[Axewielder]

OK, I guess I get the logic behind having one of the neck bolts threaded. The micro-tilt thing is a totally separate issue though: my 4-bolt american strat has that feature.

[Bengal65]

CBS shortcuts, 3-4 piece heavy Northern Ash bodies, heavy, heavy poly finishes and sloppy, poorly executed automated machinery for routing, attributed to a lot of the downfall in the instruments.

I can't believe that these instruments are demanding vintage prices. I couldn't wait to unload mine for something of higher quality back in the day.

Maybe a lot of these quality issues led guy's like Charvel to start building quality custom guitars?

[Axewielder]

I wonder why Yngwie goes after all the 70's strats as opposed to the 60's stuff? He is, after all, The Greatest Strat Player Ever.