1986 model 6 problems

[dudeman82]

Just recently got my first model 6, I been wanting one since the mid 90's and I finally got it. Found this 86 at a pawn shop for $170.00 Not perfect, it's missing all the active controls, and the single coils are MIA. It came with 1 screamin deamon. Otherwise a good buy for 170.

So... I love the kahler bridges, used them on everything. But this model 6 has so much angle on the neck that the saddles have to be jacked sky high!!! So high infact that the set screws in the saddle start to fall out the bottom and collapse on themselves. Are all model 6's with kahlers jacked this high?????? I can't imagine a great company like charvel would engineer a guitar this way.

From what I have found in the past the kahlers work great only if the saddles are flat, once lifted there is too much angle and it won't stay in tune. So I built a metal shim for under the kahler and that solved some of the problem with the set screws, but if the shim is any bigger it will look stupid. So i guess I have to deal with the les paul feel.

Other problems... no matter how high the action was the strings would buzz. Only at the first fret though.. so I took the nut off, which looked fine, it had never been removed before and didn't look worn down... I raised it just so slightly and that solved that problem. Can't figure out why it would have been too low. And it still seems a bit low. The action on my low E is almost enough to stick a pencil under it. Yet the high E is GREAT!!

The neck is super fast, i love this guitar, but the issue with the kahler being so jacked high it makes the guitar feel like a les paul with a wizard neck. Having the strings so far off the body make this guitar NOT the ideal shred machine. Not to mention it sounds pretty ugly considering it has a 4 piece poplar body. ??? what where they thinking???

Anyway.... I played an 88 once before with the floyd and the guitar was just incredible and super solid. Hence the reason I've wanted one for so long. But I'm not so sure about this 1986 model.

any thoughts thanx

[nhspike]

hmmm
well, what's the neck relief/curve looking like?
and you corrected the nut height problem, right?

with a bolt on, I'd be shimming that neck, or adjusting the angle of the neck pocket on a bridgeport milling machine.

pics might help us diagnose this situation

Shimming the Kahler seems like the right idea, all other things being in order.

almost seems like the neck angle is incorrect?

[Axewielder]

I retrofitted a Kahler on a neck thru guitar with a steep angle, and had to replace the stock string height set screws with taller ones. I forget where I got them or what the specs are though, but they weren't from Kahler. Personally I love strings way high off the body.

[nhspike]

I tend to agree with you Axe.

Look at violins... could the bridge be any taller?

Must be good for tone or somefin.

Taller setscrews is a great idea, if you can live with the altitude

[Rich#6]

the neck is set at an angle and the saddles are really high on mine but the action is low. sounds like you need a neck adjustment. the grooves in the nut could be worn down causing the buzzing issue. As far as I know it should only be 2 pieces of poplar for the wings I have had mine since 1988 and it's the best playing guitar I have ever played( yes better then many american made guitars). I got tired of getting offers for it back when I first got it. Are you used to playing with recessed floyds? Guitars with kahlers, toms, and non recessed floyds all have a neck angle to them.

[dudeman82]

To start off:

I fix'd the nut problem but i think it could be taller yet. Maybe the years of pulling the string through the nut may have wore it down.

The neck is straight as an arrow, so I put a touch of bend in it to overcome the buzz situation. Still very straight though.

It seems the neck angle is to extreme. is the neck level with the body on the floyd versions.. 87-91???

Response to AXE.. The longer screws is a good call, I corrected that problem with the shim though, I used sheet metal about as thick as a quarter. Looks real nice. hardly notice it

The action is great all but the Low E.

Rich#6 actually I hardly ever use the floyds, Always use kahlers. Usually all the kahlers are set up with a slight angle on the neck but not extreme as in the les paul or model 6.

As far as the wood goes, when i took the cover plate off the back you can see in the routing was done before the two pieces where glued together. Basically you can see the difference in the routed area between the two pieces. I'll try to get a pic on here. If i can figure it out

[Rich#6]

Basically you can see the difference in the routed area between the two pieces.

It should be poplar wing, maple neck, and poplar wing. Where the kahler is routed it's the maple neck.
For some reason I think I remember on the other 86 model 6 I had it may have had a plastic washer under the kahler like on the neck plate. but i could be wrong. I sold that one 2 years ago. so some may need to be higher.
I just parted out a guitar that had a kahler that was really low, it would stay in tune but you couldn't dive very far is that the case with your normal kahlers?

[finnman]

My Model 6 has/had the same problem.
I tried the longer set screws but did not like the bend on the strings.
So, like you I made a shim. Out of aluminum 1/16th thick.
I can use the correct set screws and the action is perfect.
The man from Kahler (forgot his name) said sometimes a shim is required.

[dudeman82]

For some reason I think I remember on the other 86 model 6 I had it may have had a plastic washer under the kahler like on the neck plate. but i could be wrong.

I had an American made BC Rich Bich that was built in 85' and the factory kahler that came on the guitar had a plastic spacer about the thickness of 2 quarters. I found it weird that they would make a spacer out of a non resonant material such as plastic. I used steel on the one I built for the model 6. This way the spacer mates up nicely with the bridge. Just makes more scence to me.
I never have a problem with the kahler going out of tune unless I flog on it real hard. Dive bomb usually isn't an issue. It's certainly not as stable as a Floyd but It's much smoother.


Finnman nice job on the spacer... how did you insert that pic? did you use the "insert image" button? They never work for me. Usually on these forums there is another pic link.

[finnman]

Finnman nice job on the spacer... how did you insert that pic? did you use the "insert image" button? They never work for me. Usually on these forums there is another pic link.

I use Photobucket.com hosting site.
Upload the pic to Photobucket.
find "Direct Link" tab next to the photo in photobucket. (right click - copy)
( the pic I want to show)
then come back here. (the post reply area)
Click the "yellow Picture icon" above by the "2 arrows",
then Paste the link.

[MetalMedal II]

My Model 6 has/had the same problem.
I tried the longer set screws but did not like the bend on the strings.
So, like you I made a shim. Out of aluminum 1/16th thick.
[/IMG]

You have access to a mill to make a shim? Cool!

BTW, I have a mid-80s Rhoads with a plastic shim for the Kahler, original from the Jackson factory.

[metalone]

I have an 1980 Gibson V with a Kahler and it has 2 shims made of plastic under it
Always wanted to get one made of brass or hard wood
I still have it, waiting for a respray so maybe someday I'll do it

[finnman]

No mill, I made it by hand.
I did use an old Kahler base for a templet.

[missionguitars1]

At $170 you're a couple hundred bucks under the fair value of that guitar...with the Kahler bridge and the neck-thru truss rod issues you're going to run into, I'd sink $60 into a pro setup from a guy that you trust...the frustration you're running into just isn't worth it...