First Post - NGD - Model 3

[radiomatts]

Hey everyone,
This is my first post, although I've been around a bit. This forum is great for research, and I appreciate everyone's insights. About a week ago, I picked up a 1986 Red Model 3 in what appears to be a ridiculously one sided trade for a Fender MIM Strat. The guy I traded my Strat to said the Charvel had too many memories of a band he hated. So my gain. Anyway, I have a few questions that I hope you'll allow the indulgence on.

I have to assume this guitar is stock. No, I guess I don't have to, but I'm guessing it is stock. Perhaps its me, but I find the pickups pretty lifeless. I have a variety of guitars, including Gibson, Fender and ESP, and mostly use Duncan or Gibson humbuckers. This humbucker is really flat sounding. I know that we're talking about personal taste, but wondered if this was just me or a common complaint on these guitars.

The second issue is that the trem, a Kahler 2500 is just brutal..or so it seems. Most of my Strat style guitars have traditional Fender trems, but I have two with Floyd Rose trems, so admittedly that's what I'm used to. The finetuners seem impossible to get to without knocking the bridge around and are really stiff, even after some WD 40. So... next question: This guitar surprised me when I looked up what it could be worth via completed sales on eBay. They're worth more than the Strat I traded. So, is it terrible to wonder about ripping out this trem and having a Floyd installed. I'm guessing a Fender 2 point trem won't work, right? Let me say that my two guitars with Floyds, are no recessed, so I guess that minimizes any cutting.

I haven't taken pictures yet, so I can't post anything until then. I just was hoping to get some thoughts and opinions on what to do here. As it stands, I'm not all that happy with it, but in some sense happier than having a garden variety MIM Strat. Yes, it needs a set up, but it's not far off from how I typically like my guitars set: Ugly low action and strung with 9's.

Thanks for any insight you guys have. I appreciate all of it.
Matt

[bombtek]

You can always go with the Kahler 2710 (Killer). It is a direct swap for the 2500 (Traditional). The 2710 is a VERY good trem. Easily surpasses any licensed Floyd trem out there and is on par when it comes to quality of (IMO) of an OFR. They are somewhat difficult to find used, but they are out there, and if you want a new one, you CAN buy one from wammiworld.com (at a ridiculous price). You can read up on why wammiworld has new ones for sale on their site, and what I am guessing their justification of the huge price for them.
Here is a link for them : http://www.wammiworld.com/b2710.php

[radiomatts]

Bombtek, thank you. Can you tell me if these 2500s are just bad? I'm not keen on spending 250 on a trem I know nothing about. Is it possible to put a traditional vintage trem on here, or is there are real issue in modifying what SOME call a vintage instrument. If that isn't the case, couldn't I just install a Floyd, since I already know about them? What about the pickups? Any thoughts there?

[bombtek]

So far as I know the Kahler 2500 (traditional) to the Kahler 2710 (killer) is the ONLY direct no mod swap that is an option. In so far as modding the guitar to suit your needs, MOD AWAY! There is absolutely no hard set rule stating "do NOT do anything to these instruments aside from string them up and play them." It's YOUR guitar. Sure they're nice...really nice guitars, but let's face it, they're not an investment piece. No one would have ever offered you a huge chunk of change for the guitar had you left it stock.

My 86 Model 3, I modded with a 2710 trem, sanded off the entire paint job on the body, sanded the back of the neck, oiled both neck and body. Left the stock pickups in (I like em), and made it into my favorite trem equipped guitar. After all the stuff I did to it, do I expect any real money for it if I ever decide to sell it? Hell no. But, now that I got it the way that I like it playability-wise, chances are that I will never sell it.

We all know that there are guitars out there that you should really NOT do anything to cept play em as they are. But a Charvel Model 3? it was MADE to be modded!

[DonP]

LOL! I have stockpiled Kahler 2700's but I'm never in the right place to get the 2500 loaded Model 2 or 3 to go with them LOL!

Yes, that 2500 is junk. Keep it in case you resale the guitar but get a Killer in there. The Killer is a huge chunk of STEEL, is locking, and, you don't need to cut the ball ends off. Also, it's infinitely adjustable. Saddles can go up, down, left, right, front back. Then you lock them down from underneath.

As far as the pickups, well, you need to find out what you have in there first before you can decide which direction to go in. For the most part I like all my Jackson pickups which are usually with a boost (but not always), but I have one stock Model 6 that I haven't bonded with the tone yet. It's got the J50BC and a boost.

[ZZB]

+1 on the Killer. Made the swap on my previously owned Model 3 and man was that a seriously good unit. I'd go as far as saying the Killer is the best vibrato system I've ever had on a guitar - I've had OFR's, Schaller Floyds, Kahlers. Like DonP says, it's built like a fucking tank and very adjustable. Nice piece of hardware!

This thread makes me miss my Model 3.

[zenzab]

'86 Model 3 Rocks ! You will find a 2 post that fits well at a E-bay store named southeastmusic ; the string spacing is 54mm instead of 52,5 so you have to replace the nut for a narrower one like I did ; The correct one is Graph Tech Black Tusq XL PT-6114-00. It works PERFECTLY !!! Better tone than with the crappy plastic stock one and no more binding at the nut ...

[radiomatts]

You guys really are fantastic. I truly appreciate your advice. I think I might go with the two point that zenzab recommends. I don't mind a new nut if I can enjoy playing the guitar more, ya know? Here's the odd part, and why I was concerned about modding: In Chicago, anyone with a Model 3 or 4 is getting 600 for these guitars. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. AND... there are eBay sellers getting that much too. Considering I traded this guitar for a boring black MIM Strat, I really wondered. I'm going to ahead and look at the standard 2 point trem and thrown in my favourite Gibson 498T in the bridge position. This forum rocks. Thanks so much.

[jdr94]

Welcome and congrats on the charvel. Im sure you will never regret the trade

[zenzab]

Hi Matt! Yeah, you're right, this place rocks !!! Welcome to the Circus, bro' ! I've seen you made your choice with my suggestion so let me give you some advice I' m sure will help you and avoid headaches and loss of time ... The trem won't work out correctly if you don't change the nut: the angled headstock+the crappy plastic-made nut cause binding and so, the trem can't return to pitch correctly ... That's why I gave you the info about the one you should install and use. The only thing you'll have to do is to adjust the height (the installation indications on the packaging are very helpful! ). Don't forget the remove the after-the nut lock string !!! BTW, you will find a new truss rod cover @fretsonthenet .(He's a Member here ...)
One more word: as english is not my native language, I may not be as clear as I'd like. Don't hesitate to ask for some more if you need to ...
Cheers

[peabuddy]

Bombtek, thanks man for that link. they have 4 string bass trems on sale for 130 with free shipping i have 3 but i'll get more!

[straycat]

You made a good trade.
All the tips so far are on the money.
The 2500 can be made to work the string clamps are the weak link.
I have rebuilt lots of them and they work fine.very smooth trem if they are right.

[radiomatts]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Here are a few pics of the guitar. This place is totally great

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By the way...does anyone know where I can get a back plate for this?

[VitaminG]

hotness, man. Great colour combo, black on red