Is Fender destroying the Charvel brand?

[xenophobe]

Fret ends is one of those little things that make a big impact in overall feel. This is where ESP CS and Ibanez CS really shine.

CJ changed their procedures a while back. They used to do the rolled fretboard edges after fret installation with a file, now it's cnc'd before. I'm not sure which I like better... the old way made fret ends feel much larger, the new way is much more smoother feeling, but feels a bit sterile.

[sytharnia1560]

I don't think they are destroying the brand, in fact if anything they are probably strengthening it do a degree. The cheaper options open up the brand to the average joe. Now if the product they were producing was bad then yes it would destroy the brand, but all the MIM ones I have played were lovely guitars.

In a way having these affordable models will probably long term increase the value of the old US made charvels as the corksniffers desire a charvel from the "golden years"

[lefty]

What do you feel are the differences that make it close? I'm asking because I want to get to the specifics that people feel make custom shops better than imports.

The MiM Deluxe has a really nice neck, and a great fretjob. Somebody
obviously put some time into that one. The Deluxe is the top of the
Mexican-built line, FWiW...

[ginsambo]

No objection to the MIM line, as they seem a good guitar for the money.

Although as an anal conservative, I do object to small abominations with the specs, like the walnut plug being the wrong shape due to a different after nut contour or depth of truss rod, not sure which. Also there is the non two inch traditional Charvel hardtail string spacing and the biggest abomination in my view is the lack of a skunk stripe altogether on the hardtail necks. Also the quality control of the maple wood is not as good, which I guess is a cost thing.

Now Jackson's have changed a lot over the years, even the sacred placement of the Vol knob moves around with different models and has done since the 90's. But attaining to be an authentic guitar and drawing on the depths of history and nostalgia of a company that was formerly independent and steeped in history, in order to market and sell your goods and then getting the specs wrong is just plain blasphemy IMO.

Also those shitty Charvel Stars they sell, with, WTF are those inlay and 24 frets, definitely tarnish the prestige of the original Charvel Star.

But mostly it's about the Skunk stripe and walnut plug for me.

Although, in fairness, Charvel made all sorts of non standard stuff originally for loads of people and other companies, that was their market. So the concept of a standardised format is kind of OCD nuts in itself. Although they were special at one thing and that was quality.

[ps43203]

It's all about the Benjamins, cause lets be honest if these companies don't make a certain amount of capitol a year, share holders and investors will pull their money out and you'll have what Peavey has, a company that brings everything into the country. Our economy has bred this, it's how it is. I don't buy new guitars because I can't afford them, pricing them cheaper does put them in my price range but for just a bit more, used, which is still in my price range I can get a much better guitar and be far happier even if it has a paint chip or something that brings the value down a bit by buying used. It's not helping Fender at all and I'm sorry for that, but it's where a lot of us are. I would love to buy new and American made only but, that's not happening, in my reality I have to take what I can get, that's closest to what I want. Fender is trying to reach people like me to keep getting money, from whatever price point. I had some major problems with Guitar Center a few years back and told everybody that would hold still long enough (a little bitchy, I know) but I talked to one of their head customer service guys and they tried their damnedest to make things right and they also asked for my help, I know it's a physiological move but I feel if your bitching and not helping you should just shut up. But I now get their constant survey about how they are doing and all of it boils down to sales. That's all they want to know, did this make you feel like you wanted to buy something. Money rules folks. OK rant over. lol

Spot on ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ So sad for the U.S. blue collars, like me that can't swing 2800 fro a usa jackson, sucks, the older one's are better anyway.

[Radiohead]

Interesting discussion. IMO, to succeed and continue to grow, companies need to find and develop new markets and broaden their reach to prospective customers. All companies are doing this, Gibson, PRS, ESP, Ibanez,etc.

Why do companies need to grow? Well, if your not growing then your shrinking and even if you try to stay stagnant then you will be loosing marketshare to companies that are growing by implementing strategies of growth. Low end offerings fuel the manufacturing engine and allow companies to invest in R&D and build lower volume, higher margin products. I would bet that the USA Jackson's and the custom shop could no longer exist with out the entry level offerings producing large unit sales figures.

The discussion has become a debate on USA, Japan and Mexican build quality but I think you need to judge a company by the quality and offering in each market segment. Gibson still makes everything in the USA, but I would take almost any MIM Charvel over a Studio any day. I think Fender is doing a great job when you consider their sales and quality of their offering relative to other competitors in various market segments.

[pianoguyy]

Gibson still makes everything in the USA,

No they don't.
They are started in China, and then finished in the USA.

But don't tell anyone. It's a secret.

[xenophobe]

Except, Jackson hasn't flourished. Things have been stagnant and have never recovered from the FMIC buyout. How many of the droves of artists that left have they replaced?

Jackson will always be my favorite brand, but Fender has done nothing but mismanage the brand since acquiring it.

[Grandturk]

Except, Jackson hasn't flourished. Things have been stagnant and have never recovered from the FMIC buyout. How many of the droves of artists that left have they replaced?

Jackson will always be my favorite brand, but Fender has done nothing but mismanage the brand since acquiring it.

See I tend to think Jackson was dead in the water prior to fender. They had no market anymore no presense in stores and were barely hanging on. Now if you show me that their late 90!s market share was in fact growing and profitable, I'll eat my hat.

[xenophobe]

See I tend to think Jackson was dead in the water prior to fender. They had no market anymore no presense in stores and were barely hanging on. Now if you show me that their late 90!s market share was in fact growing and profitable, I'll eat my hat.

You're putting words into my mouth. I didn't say their market share was growing, it certainly wasn't as bad as it is now, especially with a flood of cheap sub $100 used Jacksons that flood most consignment shops in the last decade. Jackson had already lost to ESP by the 2000's but there was still a lot going on. Lloyd was sure doing well with large-ish batches of limited runs. There were still lots of cool and weird things going on. There was also a lot more forum activity going on back then. Even the quality and quantity of CS guitars on ebay is nothing like it used to be.

Fender never really got a grasp on the metalhead mentality. Do you even remember the flood of artists that dropped as soon as it was announced that FMIC purchased Jackson? Small dealers got squished out by large minimum orders that previously weren't there. Then they flooded the market with a bunch of cheap imports. Sure, USA QC is up. Guitars are better (and more CNC'd) than ever. Jackson never recovered from the FMIC buyout, even NAMM shows aren't nearly as impressive as they used to be.

Oh, and let's not mention the way Fender backstabbed Chushin Gakki. They shut down the factory by making it go bankrupt... all of us loved that facotry. FMIC was more interested in making more profit. FMIC has a huge hierarchy of corporate middle men that Jackson didn't originally have that needs to get paid. Jackson and Charvel would have been better off if Mustaine had been allowed to purchase them. Hindsight is a bitch.

[Grandturk]

Certainly not trying to put words in your mouth. And I never tracked artists associated at that time other than knowing the only person who still played Jacksons was Mustaine and Megadeth was a joke at the end of the 90's anyway. I started playing in the early 90's - 25 years ago. At that time everyone was dumping pointy guitars and like companies were flat out going away. This trend didn't reverse until deep into the 2000's. Whether the market changed by itself or Fender had a part in it, the company has returned to relevancy rather than being seen as a joke. Fwnder didn't put out those late 90's early 2000's Charvel Journeyman guitars. If anything Fender has been responsible for reviving Charvel as a relevant brand and keeping Jackson alive - they're on the covers of magazines again. That's got to be a good thing

[xenophobe]

They have made Charvel relevant again and they're producing better Charvels than they ever have. But that wasn't really difficult... slap a strathead on it, and voila, the brand everyone loved is back with stratheads. They've obviously listened to what Charvel players have wanted. Those Journeymen Charvels were really well made, they were overpriced for what they were though. But if you want to bring those up, yeah, look at the Desolation series. I liked the one I owned, but nobody wants to buy them, I ended up giving mine away to a close friend. But Charvel is more of a Fender-ish market target audience that they're deeply connected to, so they knew what to do with that relatively early on.

Jackson as a brand... Pablo series, Jenna series, all the relic stuff, all of the brand diluted JS, etc... If you paid attention to how Fender was treating the Jackson Brand market for the first several years, you'd agree they had no idea where to go, there was no direction, there were no real updates to the website, no new news. Fender just really had no idea what to do with a pointy guitar. Jackson isn't the only other brand that Fender has mismanaged either.

Back in 2000, I could go to any Guitar Center or many smaller shops and still see CS and USA Jacksons. Now you're most likely to find used JS and cheap crap, but CS and USA are only at a shop if they were brought in by a customer. Brand dilution has had a negative impact on the Jackson brand.

Compare Jackson to how ESP markets their guitars. Not a valid comparison? Well ESP won the war with Jackson. So that comparison should be made directly. ESP has continued to keep their brand as the high-end and expanding the EII and LTD series.

[VitaminG]

The best Charvel’s were made by Wayne himself (He & Michael still build them too) everything else is really kinda a fake anyway, lol

Wayne & Michael have created a niche for themselves making copies of the guitars that Grover made years after Wayne had sold the company.

Grover, on the other hand, is now making modern superstrats, paying homage to the classics but not merely mimicking them.

[ozweepay]

I own 5 Pro Mod Charvels. Various origins, USA, MIJ, MIM, and they are all great playing instruments. I play them all regularly, and if I had to pick a favorite, it would be the MIM Orange Sparkle that I acquired last year. I had my doubts about it, but it sounds a little fatter and has solid tone. I like them all though.

[jspeed]

If anything Fender has been responsible for reviving Charvel as a relevant brand and keeping Jackson alive - they're on the covers of magazines again. That's got to be a good thing

Very true and the new MIM's are selling.