Is Fender destroying the Charvel brand?

[xenophobe]

You want proof there isn't real hate for Wayne here?

He was charging people $295+shipping to take a picture with your guitar and autograph it.

Nobody gave him shit for that. At least not here. He got a free pass.

[Emerald]

This is a sign of the times and hopefully will enable US made Jackson and Charvels to survive. These Mexican made models cannot hope to compete directly with their US equivalents but hopefully make the market broader for all models.
Fender's takeover is a blessing and a curse. The original players Wayne and Grover have all moved on yet are inexplicably linked to their past.
I would rather have a US made Jackson than a GJ2 and a US made Charvel with Mike Shannon attached to it than an import.
That J/C is still going is a miracle and shows that there still is marketability to the next generation of players. I may not care for the newer guitars but some people do.
the J/C Custom shop is reasonable compared to Fender's Custom Shop prices.
When I had the original Steve Stevens Charvel Glow Strathead I knew that it was a museum piece and we wouldn't see a comparable quality guitar exactly like that one anymore.
Who knows whats happening lately. I was clad to visit Charvel/Fender when I did got to meet Mike Eldred who painted that Glow guitar and it was neat to reminiscence about the good old days and they were really good days.
Outsourcing is popular in all aspects of manufacturing and won't be going away anytime soon.
The limited Grover Jackson Legacy series, a limited success at best was the last attempt at a retro product and it sort of failed as a major success imo.
Glad to have played the classic Charvels and Jacksons that I have..
Emerald

[xenophobe]

Here's a little transitional CJFender history along with some subjective speculation... my Editorial I guess:

There's no question that quality increased quite a bit under FMIC management. You don't hear the horror stories anymore... at least not like the last two years before the buyout. Maybe a lot of people don't remember that era very well. They were producing some of the most amazing Jackson custom guitars, but a lot of QC issues were being completely missed or overlooked at all stages of manufacturing. I think they just had too many Select SKUs and their business model needed the changes that FMIC implemented. This is back in the "the same people build Selects as the Customs era".

A lot of people don't really remember that each USA Select had a different SKU for each finish, and some models had over 10 or 20 SKUs... If you wanted a particular model in a particular finish, you would be in the hands of fate. Either the SKU was in stock and you'd get it, or you could wait up to a year before that particular SKU got back into production. That was when all bodies and cavities were pin routed with manually attached templates and they did runs of 15 or more for the most popular SKUs. With or without Fender, this production model had to be updated CJ was just trying to do more than it could actually handle. In the last 2-3 years is when wait times and promised dates started being skipped regularly. When the factory was actually at it's less hectic optimal production, CS orders were shipping out sometimes in less than a year.

Fender almost immediately dropped the previous CJ paint options. That was one of the first things they did. After a couple of years, many of the standard Fender color options were brought to the USA Select models. Then they moved to Corona. Master Builders went off to their Custom Only world and Select production was separate. Since customs are no longer built along side the Selects... their wait time actually increased. They used to put them between select runs and they would get forced out a lot more quickly. Then at some point, probably several years after moving into Corona, they started getting equipment upgrades.

I don't know when the change happened, but CS factory rolled fretboard edges completely changed. It used to be a hand process done by a file after the frets were installed giving it a very unique feel. The last several "new" Charvels I've owned are completely different. The fretboard edges are CNC and the frets placed after. It's actually a much smoother feeling neck, but it's not the same.... it's very sterile feeling, but it doesn't have the imperfections of hand rasping. Just another time consuming hand feature that disappeared somewhere along the line. Also, most of the hand shaping had been removed by CNC. While they're still hand finished, they're not really hand shaped like they used to be. There is far less irregularity on necks than there used to be...

CNC was added to make producing Select batches faster and more consistent. I'm thinking around the time when we were getting a lot of reports of mis-aligned pickups or wrongly spaced trem posts and irregular cavities several years ago is when this changed. Maybe 6 months before Custom Selects were offered. Going CNC for body routing gave them the freedom to offer their new service.

So, I think the things Fender has done have been beneficial, however I still believe they're mismanaging the actual Brand.

There's also no question that the Charvel brand has been hugely transformed. Fender did the right thing for Charvel.



They still haven't got a clue how to manage Jackson. They milked the fanbase for new $$$ Rhoads copies... use a porn star as a selling point, I mean come on, that whole Jenna Jameson thing was beyond stupid and embarrassing for Jackson as a brand. Well, at least I thought so. And they never really reached out to all of the previous endorsers of Jackson when they bailed out in great droves and went elsewhere. There were so many HUGE metal bands that could have been playing Jacksons if they would have reached out. Many signed acts had a Jackson or two and were completely not endorsed at all.

And look at the Jackson web site. It used to be a genuine and personal site that was regularly updated... now it's just a generic site with placeholder images that isn't really worth paying attention to.

Jackson needs to drop or re-brand their JS and X line... They're an embarrassment. ESP wouldn't even give guitars that crappy a LTD badge.... they would fall under the "Grassroots" label... the X series would probably equate to the Edwards line.

Jackson always used to be the guitar that was on the top hangars... now it's most often the guitar in the barrel for $100.

[pianoguyy]

If you wanted a particular model in a particular finish, you would be in the hands of fate. Either the SKU was in stock and you'd get it, or you could wait up to a year before that particular SKU got back into production.

I don't know how other companies do it, but here is how Kawai Pianos did it. I can't confirm that this is still how they do it.
They spent 9 months out of the year making black pianos. Then they would stop production. Finish up and clear out every black piano and ship to the warehouse.
They would clean every paint machine, every hose... if it came in contact with paint or the unit after it has been painted, it was cleaned to a hospital type of clean.
Then they would spend a week or two painting a different color.

And then the entire process would begin again for the next color. And it would repeat until they got all of the pianos painted in all of the various shades that they made.



Certainly, pianos are different than guitars. But it is just the point that in order to make a new color, they would close down the shop and 'sterilize' the place to prevent a single drop of the wrong color getting in the mix. And then all colors were made in batches.
So, when it is out of stock, it is really out of stock.

[Grandturk]

When was the Fender acquisition? When was the Jenna V? Those dates don't jive with me.

Edit - nah I guess they do. Fender acquisition in 2002. IMO - we got Charvel strathead back. That's all that matters.

[shreddermon]

It's a mixed bag. Much more good than bad, when it comes to the guitars themselves. But there are missteps (Desolations) and very poor customer service (refusing to take custom shop orders), too.

It seems like they're going through a corporate restructuring-like period now. Those are always painful. So we'll have to wait and see how Charvel emerges on the other side, which is already taking too long.

[lepard]

Lepard, if you're talking about the EVH striped series, those are MIM. Right alongside the Charvel ProMods. And so are the new import Dimartinis.

Wow, then they all suck. After picking up several of those EVH guitars at Guitar Center and seeing the horrible fretwork, I just assumed they were Chinese.

[lepard]

Really, now you have to get in the gutter and resort to personal insults?
Well, if you insist…..

“xenophobe n. A person who is ignorant, fearful and/or contemptuous of that which is foreign to them, especially of strangers or of people of different color, nationalities, countries or cultures”

So, if Grover was a smart guy to use the Wayne Charvel name & reputation to help build his own in the music industry, what’s the real reason for your hate for Wayne Charvel?

That last sentence pretty much proved it........... Gentlemen, welcome Michael Charvel back for another round of insanity.

[xenophobe]

Certainly, pianos are different than guitars. But it is just the point that in order to make a new color, they would close down the shop and 'sterilize' the place to prevent a single drop of the wrong color getting in the mix. And then all colors were made in batches.
So, when it is out of stock, it is really out of stock.

Well you got the basic idea... they didn't need to stop production and sterilize the place... just clean and change paint heads and paint cups... reservoirs... or whatever. Change templates and jigs, etc.. They were all batch builds with CS guitars being completed in-between batches.

It's a mixed bag. Much more good than bad, when it comes to the guitars themselves. But there are missteps (Desolations) and very poor customer service (refusing to take custom shop orders), too.

It seems like they're going through a corporate restructuring-like period now. Those are always painful. So we'll have to wait and see how Charvel emerges on the other side, which is already taking too long.

Well, like I said, I think they improved QC and manufacturing procedures... factory management and production technique has changed for the better. They still mis-managed the Jackson brand name, IMO. And I agree the Desolations were a mistake too. They were decently made guitars, but overpriced for what they actually were.

That last sentence pretty much proved it........... Gentlemen, welcome Michael Charvel back for another round of insanity.

The funny thing is that I own what is supposedly a Mike Charvel neck, and it's really really nice.

But seriously, asking $295+shipping for an autograph and pictures of Wayne holding your guitar... he so got a free pass from the torment he should have received...

[d4rin]

Why do people think that once you buy a new guitar it will be setup and have perfect fretwork. I have bought like 20 guitars in my life and they need work right away.

YES it sucks. But that's just the way it is. if I buy a new guitar I don't give a shit about the setup because I know it's shitty and I will change it anyways.

[pianoguyy]

Why do people think that once you buy a new guitar it will be setup and have perfect fretwork. I have bought like 20 guitars in my life and they need work right away.

YES it sucks. But that's just the way it is. if I buy a new guitar I don't give a shit about the setup because I know it's shitty and I will change it anyways.

A setup is one thing. But no quality guitar should ever need fretwork.
If it needs fretwork, it shouldn't have left the factory!

[sytharnia1560]

A setup is one thing. But no quality guitar should ever need fretwork.
If it needs fretwork, it shouldn't have left the factory!

I mostly agree but some times frets will lift when being shipped. I have seen PRS', gibsons and plenty more that have had that happen...but nothing a little tap doesn't fix

[shreddermon]

It's also pretty common to have sharp fret ends, especially on oiled necks. Wood shrinks or expands with environmental conditions, folks. Sharp ends don't mean poor fret work. It probably didn't even leave the factory that way. But the wood contracted more than the metal frets when you experienced it, so it needs a minor shaving down again to account for your local environment.

I've experienced this on expensive custom shop guitars and lowly imports, and many manufacturers. It is what it is. Not necessarily a QC issue.

[Matt_B]

When I worked in the music retail biz, our chain gave a free set-up with every guitar we sold, new or used, to address the issues that have been mentioned. I sold and handled thousands of different guitars in the 12 years I worked there and a lot of them had minor set-up issues and the price of the guitar had no bearing on the occurrence of these issues. If nothing else the free set-up could be used to get the guitar set for the gauge of strings you like or the action you liked. It's sort of like get a suit tailored to fit because one size does not fit everyone.

[pianoguyy]

I have never bought a guitar online, they have always gone through the hands of a professional at a store before coming into my hands.
But, I did work at a store, therefore I was the professional that was taking guitars from the factory and adjusting them before they hit the racks...

I've never found quality guitars needing 'work', they've only ever needed a quick setup.

If you guys have had other experiences, more power to ya. I can only speak on my own personal experiences.