Charvel Model 3 with painted neck

[francesco73]

However, I believe there is a way to know for sure whether it is a refinish or an original paint job. Just see if there is the date stamps on the neck heel. If it is not there, it means that it has been covered with paint and therefore the neck has been refinish. If the date stamps are present because that part has not been painted, then it is still a refinish. In fact, I believe that if it had been a factory paint, the date stamps would be present on top of the paint. Do you think my reasoning is correct?

[pianoguyy]

Sorry I didn't know it is forbidden to mention AXN. The other link refers to the Ebay guitar and not the one on Reverb,

Forbidden is a strong word.
It's just that many JCFers would prefer he not exist.

[francesco73]

Forbidden is a strong word.
It's just that many JCFers would prefer he not exist.

OK, I went to read some old posts and I understand why.

[francesco73]

The seller pointed out to me that the limited edition Charvels with painted necks are documented on the following site:

http://www.charvelusa.com/charvel_models/charvel_images/charvel_1986_models/limited_model3.jpg

It is a site that I consult frequently to identify models and I believe it is an authoritative source.
Maybe I'm wrong?
He also told me that in the last few months he has sold more limited edition guitars with painted neck and is waiting for another one now from Japan. It seems to me that it is in good faith.

[metalhobo]

charvelusa.com is a a fansite and is in fact associated with axn. so it's a good datapoint, but I wouldn't necessarily call it authoritative. as I said before I do think the example in the OP is legitimate.

[Number Of The Priest]

As a veteran member, I admit that I still don't know the story behind why AlienXNation is shunned on JCF, but I'm not his target customer base so honestly I don't care, other than disapproving his overly inflated price gouging; if that is the sole reason he is ostracized, then consider me part of the group that boycotts him.

I have no shame in admitting that I have wholeheartedly and repeatedly linked his CharvelUSA.com website as a source of correct information on many occasions as I find that the information is accurate and organized well.

It's unfortunate that the person responsible for a nice information website is also the same person gouging the market, because I can see why the latter behavior would cast a shadow of doubt over the former.

Good job shooting yourself in the foot, AlienXNation.

[Razor]

Thanks for reporting this auction but I don't know that website. I am in Italy and outside Europe I prefer to buy only on Ebay and Reverb where I feel quite protected.
What do you think about this?

https://www.ebay.it/itm/154589247761

t looks in good condition and you can definitely get it for $ 550 including shipping from japan. Actually I am more interested in a model 6 and I am about to win one in near mint condition that belonged to only one owner. But I am already thinking of economic alternatives if I fail to win the Model 6. This is because I absolutely want to give myself a Charvel this week. I already have some Japanese Jacksons and I had a very good Charvel SDK-075 but I had the opportunity to exchange it for a Carvin CT-6 custom shop. Now the desire for Charvel has returned and I will certainly buy several in a few months. For the first one I'm going to buy, I don't care if I pay more for it than it's worth. For the others I will look for good opportunities.

Check out this link and look at the catalog. I don't have this catalog downloaded but you can view it here. https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com....pan-catalogue/

[Razor]

charvelusa.com is a a fansite and is in fact associated with axn. so it's a good datapoint, but I wouldn't necessarily call it authoritative. as I said before I do think the example in the OP is legitimate.

It would be nice to lift the skirt on that OP guitar and see what the neck pocket, pickup and control cavities look like.

I would be absolutely stunned to see a factory painted neck on a Model series but I guess if the sun, moon and stars align it could happen. In all the years I've been on here I don't recall ever seeing someone post a legitimate painted neck bolt on Model series. If one or some exist I'd love to see the documentation on them.

[francesco73]

It would be nice to lift the skirt on that OP guitar and see what the neck pocket, pickup and control cavities look like.

I would be absolutely stunned to see a factory painted neck on a Model series but I guess if the sun, moon and stars align it could happen. In all the years I've been on here I don't recall ever seeing someone post a legitimate painted neck bolt on Model series. If one or some exist I'd love to see the documentation on them.

But are your doubts about all the guitars you've ever seen or do you absolutely doubt the existence of this limted edition model? Consider that this hypothetical limited edition model is not only characterized by the painted neck but also stands out for having the body in Japanese ash instead of basswood. I agree with you on the possibility that someone will invent the existence of this model to justify a refinish done on the guitar, but why even invent that the body is in Japanese-ash? A luthier or a person skilled in wood could easily deny this thing.
Anyway these days I'm in talks for other guitars. But if I decide to buy this next week, I'll demand detailed photos of the inside of the guitar and show them to you.
To buy it, I have to be absolutely sure that it is legitimate.

[Firewind66]

Hi all, I'm the seller of this guitar, and I am having a very open and friendly discussion with francesco73 about it, I thought I'd join the chat here.

First let me say I come in peace and strictly in a spirit of exchange and mutual learning I don't claim to be an "expert", to know it all, or to never make mistakes. I won’t try to convince anyone of anything, either.

NOTP points out very appropriately that in regards to Chushin (and in fact it's true of most MIJ guitar brands and factories...) there are still mysteries to discover, and speaking strictly for myself, I still regularly discover models that I had never heard of, I even have guitars that seem to have never officially existed.

My humble field of knowledge is MIJ guitars between 85 and 95, mainly Charvel Jackson, ESP, BC Rich, Fernandes, which I have been collecting for some 35 years. I'm not stating this as any kind of credentials, but just to introduce myself. Anyone interested may check out the sale link to see my seller feedback and whatever else. I have learned over the years not to say “always” or “never” when it comes to models and specs, the best we can do is remain open minded and humble, before sentencing this or that guitar as refin, fake or mutt.

It was not unusual for brand factories to produce small series of “tweaked” models with exclusive specs for certain Japanese Music chain stores like Shimamura, Ishibashi, and so on. Those models were never referenced on official catalogs, and therefore it is highly unlikely that any formal documentation will ever be found on these. If you additionally factor in the lost records, closed factories, all of this being pre-internet, it all becomes detective work (big part of the fun!) and we have to accept that we may never have completely definitive info or stainless steel evidence on certain things.

Now for the painted neck Models.
I was very surprised myself the first time I saw one, I even thought that it might be a doctored Fernandes Limited Edition neck, which was a contemporary model with painted neck and concord headstock. But on close inspection the neck was a proper Charvel.

I have had five 1986 Charvel Model guitars with painted necks so far (all in the 24XXXX serials), sold two Model 2 and two Model 3 with painted necks in recent months, I have just acquired another one, all of them I have sourced in Japan. These are my observations:

• Upon very close inspection there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that it is a factory finish;
• Considering the condition of the guitars I acquired, they had obviously been sitting in a corner unplayed for a very very long time, so that means that someone in Japan would have had to do a series of extremely professional refins 30+ years ago, on a handful of necks, and just on Models 2 and 3, and a handful of these would have landed on my lap precisely...that seems very unlikely to say the least;
• Doing my research, I came across the mention of these limited editions on the…forbidden website… that Francesco mentioned, I was the one to point it out to him, and you can see the ref photos of painted neck 2s and 3s. (I do agree this dude is the Essex Studios of the US when it comes to prices, but I have no interest in controversy or getting into why peeps hate this guy or not, and no matter what, he does have reliable info on Charvel that has been useful to many of us over the years);
• Glad NOTP mentioned mecha64, I had forgotten about him, went back and found this on his page under the Model series “Model 2 Limited Edition: 1986 only. Red or black or ivory with factory painted neck deliver to favored dealers. Rosewood fretboard and the Kahler tremolo. J-90C pickup. Less than 200 of these, including other Model 3s and Model 4s. “

IMHO “less than 200” qualifies as very rare…

I myself prefer satin or oiled necks over painted, but that’s besides the point in regards to what these guitars are or not.

I believe the info I have so far is quite sufficient to determine these models are totally legit, but I understand if someone wants to think otherwise.

I will have a look this weekend at the neck pocket on this 3, and will look at the Model 2 I am expecting. No matter what I find, you will know.

[pianoguyy]

It was not unusual for brand factories to produce small series of “tweaked” models with exclusive specs for certain Japanese Music chain stores like Shimamura, Ishibashi, and so on. Those models were never referenced on official catalogs, and therefore it is highly unlikely that any formal documentation will ever be found on these. If you additionally factor in the lost records, closed factories, all of this being pre-internet, it all becomes detective work (big part of the fun!) and we have to accept that we may never have completely definitive info or stainless steel evidence on certain things.

While it is true, and we all already knew it to be true, statements like this (particularly publicly on a highly trafficked site, where it will be searched and indexed and cloned and quoted and blasted all over the web), it gives criminals a free pass to say and do whatever they'd like.

[Razor]

While it is true, and we all already knew it to be true, statements like this (particularly publicly on a highly trafficked site, where it will be searched and indexed and cloned and quoted and blasted all over the web), it gives criminals a free pass to say and do whatever they'd like.

Exactly! While limitetd batches do happen there's proof to go along with them. The OP's guitar doesn't have that "verifiable" proof.

Just like when trading and buying guns you buy the gun not the story.

Like I said. If I were the buyer I'd be insisting on lifting that girls skirt and checking under the pickups, body cavities and neck pocket. I'm sure no expert but as a Model series fanboy I've spent an insane amount of time on this and other forums and I've never seen one or heard any of the guys who's opinions I value validate an example like this. Sadly most of the old school guys don't frequent this forum and stay on Facebook.

With that said it will take some proof to convince me that guitar left the factory like that (i.e. Catalog scans or verifiable documentation from the company and/or employees) to convince me. Just my opinioin which is like a belly button, everyone has one.

[john.w.lawson]

"Today's market" is yesterday's market. Or, at least where I buy/sell it is a thing of the past.
I mean, I still see people asking $1700 for a Model 6. But they aren't being sold.
I just picked up a GLP for $600 after nobody bought it at $750 for 3 weeks. The past year, easily $1000 with a 24 hour turnaround. Today - not so much.

I agree with you 100%, the times they are a changing. I knew it was gonna happen eventually and it is, give it another month or two and it will stabilize at more reasonable pricing. One big problem is all the slapped together shit people were throwing out there to make a buck. I saw a fusion USA beach bikini body with a MIJ neck lol

[Razor]

As a veteran member, I admit that I still don't know the story behind why AlienXNation is shunned on JCF, but I'm not his target customer base so honestly I don't care, other than disapproving his overly inflated price gouging; if that is the sole reason he is ostracized, then consider me part of the group that boycotts him.

I have no shame in admitting that I have wholeheartedly and repeatedly linked his CharvelUSA.com website as a source of correct information on many occasions as I find that the information is accurate and organized well.

It's unfortunate that the person responsible for a nice information website is also the same person gouging the market, because I can see why the latter behavior would cast a shadow of doubt over the former.

Good job shooting yourself in the foot, AlienXNation.

First rule of a good gun "humper" (i.e. faker) is to create a good story. AlienXNation tries to charge an insane premium on the gear they sell with fabulous stories. When worked hand in hand with another website it makes it easier to command a premium for what I would consider some "suspect" items. Again, buy the guitar or gun and not the story. Like I said earlier, if the OP has a hard on to buy it then IMHO pay the premium and buy it. What he'll have a hard time doing down the road if he unloads it is proving that it is in fact what it's being storied as unless someone between now and then finds some concrete evidence of their existence.

I don't buy stories. EVER! If I see something I want I buy it for what I feel is a fair price but the story plays zero role in the decision.

[john.w.lawson]

Since when does someone do a shitty repair yet the paint match flawlessly? Never mind the cracks lol


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