37mm OFR block & R4 nut on a Model 4?

[varador]

hey guys

I've found a killer seller on eBay who sells nothing but Original Floyd Rose bridges and at very decent prices, check it out:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZgmreszel

I'd like to buy a gold OFR to fit into my black 1988 Charvel Model 4. The gold OFR on sale that I'm interested in has a 37mm block and an R4 locking nut (for 1 11/16" string spacing). Here is the OFR:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Floyd-Rose-Tremolo-Gold_W0QQitemZ150284801933QQihZ005QQcategoryZ41407QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I have a few questions:

1) I think that all of the Charvel Model Series have 1 11/16" string spacing, so an R4 nut seems like the correct choice. Still, I want to be sure... Can I replace the old black behind-the-nut locking nut with the new R4 golden one? Will it be compatible? Is the old nut an R4 nut?

2) The gold OFR has a 37mm block but the default JT-6 trem on my Model 4 has a 43mm block (according to audiozone.dk). The trem route on the Model 4's body is non-recessed, meaning the JT-6 sits above the body. Hence, doesn't that make the length of the bridge (37mm or 43mm) not matter? Or does this 37mm/43mm dimension refer to the height of the block that goes through the guitar, into the underside of which the springs are loaded? If it's the latter, then I think that the discrepancy between 37mm and 43mm block size would be an issue... Please clarify precisely what block size refers to... I'm a little confused.

3) In short, will the damn OFR fit my Model 4?? Yes/No? Will there be any problems? What about the radius of the neck & saddle shims - will the OFR suit the 12"-16" radius of the neck?

Thank you for any replies...

[varador]

Also, I noticed that the strings feel a bit looser on my Model 4 as opposed to my Ibanez RG350DX. By this I mean that when I pick the strings, particularly the lowest ones (low E, A), they wobble around a bit more, they just feel slightly looser, even though they are the same gauge (.10) and tuning as on my 350DX. Does this have to do with the JT-6? Or does this wobbliness have to do with the fact that the JT-6 trem is non-recessed on the Model 4 (increasing the height of the string above the body), whereas the 350DX has a recessed Edge III trem? I really do prefer the tight feeling of the strings on the RG350DX, it's much better for rapid alternate picking... As for bridge height, I suppose I prefer the non-recessed trems, my downpicking is much faster on my Model 4 than my 350DX

Either way, please advise!!

[dg]

The OFR will fit, but you'll probably need to get a 42mm block for it if you want to keep the trem height the same and have any pullup range. Sometimes a 37mm block will work OK with a non-recessed floyd (in fact, many of the new Charvels come that way) but with the neck angle of the Model 4 you may find that the springs pop out when you have the trem set to the correct height to match that neck angle. The options would be to do a reverse neck shim and lower the trem closer to the body, or to get a longer block. I'd personally go for the longer block in order to not lose pullup range.

As for the nut, you (or a good tech) will have to create a shelf for it. Here's a pic of one of mine with a shelf that was done back in the '80s:

[varador]

I have to search pretty far and wide to find online sellers who actually know what they're doing when they sell OFRs. The abovementioned dealer actually knows what he's selling, other online shops almost always omit mentioning the block size of their OFRs, or, god forbid, even the nut size. Hence, after finding this awesome dealer with great prices, I'm not ready to give up on a deal just because of a difference of 6mm - unless someone can show me where to get a gold OFR with a 43mm block that ships to Germany.

Still - couldn't you route out the body to make a slightly recessed trem to accomodate for the 6mm difference? The OFR would simply sit a bit lower - would the neck have to be shimmed for 6mm, or is a truss rod adjustment enough?

[varador]

And damn it, aren't we being a bit too anal about this? I mean, there has to be a reason why most sellers don't describe the block size dimensions when selling OFRs?

[metalchurch79]

You can probably use the block from your JT-6 with the OFR.
There are 3 bolts located under the saddles where the block bolts to the trem. They are either 3 Phillips screws, or 3 Allen head (3mm, I think)

I have a Kramer Focus 4000 V that had a top mount Original Floyd (no fine tuners. anyone need this?), and I put that block onto a Jackson JT500 Floyd, so I could have finetuners on it.

I'm sure that yours will interchange with each other as well.

[dg]

I don't think the JT-6 block will fit, but OFR blocks are available for about $12 or so.

And damn it, aren't we being a bit too anal about this? I mean, there has to be a reason why most sellers don't describe the block size dimensions when selling OFRs?

We aren't being anal about it at all. The block needs to be the right length for the guitar or you will likely have springs popping out when you use the trem. The reason you often don't see the block length in ads is because the vast majority of guitars sold for quite a while now have recessed trems and use a 32mm block. If you buy one without a description, it will usually be 32mm.

[metalchurch79]

DG, I'm not 100% certain that the JT-6 block will fit an OFR. I do know that my JT-500 fit on an OFR block.

When dealing with these Liscensed Floyds, and Original Floyds, there's a good bit of discrepencies between them.

*****I don't have all of the info at my disposal, but if someone here has the knowledge, it would be so cool if they posted the specs, and what will interchange between the JT-6 / JT-500 / JT580 / Schaller / FloydII / Original Floyd, etc...

Maybe some kind of chart, or something easy to read, and make it a sticky in the tech.
Something like that would have helped varador, as well as countless others including myself.

I think that this is a good idea.
What do you guys think? Anyone willing to take this on??
I'll help in any way that I can, and I'm sure everyone else will also.*****

[rjohnstone]

I just bought a new Black OFR from that seller. They are the real deal (Made in Germany)
He ships fast and they are exactly as described. Bought mine Friday night and it was here this morning.
Cheap prices too... I was able to use a live.com discount on the auction and saved $42.
$127 for a new OFR!

[varador]

I FOUND A SOLUTION!!

Since rjohnstone confirms the reliability of the seller, I'll be buying the OFR from him even though it has the 37mm block. HOWEVER!! I'll also be ordering one of those big brass sustain blocks from FloydUpgrades.com (through their eBay store) that have been receiving some critical praise on audiozone.dk. The compatibility of the big block with an OFR is 100% certain and there is a 42mm variant! That way I'll have the block length I need as well as an interesting OFR upgrade right off the bat! Woohoo

[metalchurch79]

I never thought of that, but it's an awesome upgrade, and a perfect solution for your problem!
At first, I thought you wanted to use stock parts, that's why I went the route I did, when trying to help. I really would like to see a chart of the Floyds and their interchangablilty.

[Dallas186]

hi,

iv'e done the R4mod this evening onto a model 4 neck as the original nut on my model 4 had been filed by the previous owner (god alone knows why )and there was unlivable fret buzz on the first fret. i didn't create a shelf as such on the headstock but on the bottom of the locking nut with car body filler so that the bottom of the nut resembled a very flattened V shape, tapered from 6mm from the front about 2 degrees to mimick the angle of the headstock relative the end of the fretboard. i then painted the body filler when sanded with black enamel.

it's easier than it sounds, honest.

i will pull it off again and photograph if this doesn't make sense.

my overriding reason for this mod though was not only the fret buzz but also i was missing the original kahler locking nut and couldn't get one in the UK, in fact kahler US ebay shop declined to mail one to me when i asked the question.


cheers,

Rich

[metalchurch79]

I get what you're saying, but how are you attaching it to the neck? I would tend to think that the 'car putty' would crack over time, leaving you back to the drawing board.
I would like to see photo's of this though. It sounds interesting for sure!

[Dallas186]

it's a top secured nut, whilst there isn't much room either side of the trussrod nut the screw spacing is just enough to allow for drilling pilot holes and using the self tapping screws supplied with the nut. the ones that came with mine looked fairly long so after drilling the pilot holes (very carefully and not too deep) i just shortened the screws by about 3mm.

i don't see why the body filler would crack, it's not under load as such, just filling the gap that would exist without and stopping the nut from having a tendancy to fall backwards. i had to shim the new nut up by ahout .25mm just to make sure of the clearance between the strings and the first fret but other than that it was fine, only time will tell though

i'll pull it off again when i get home later and take some photo's to give you the idea.

i liked the idea of doing it this way cos it's all reversible should the need arise and a kahler locking nut ever fall into my posession

if you look back at the photo that dg posted the pice of wood forming the 'shelf' is now a part of the nut itself, just in filler and not so deep.

rich