Weekend in Tokyo, I'd like to look for a used star - Help/hints with Ochanomizu

[Deephaven]

Took a 20 year hiatus on playing. Started two weeks ago on the guitar I always had wished was a Jackson.

And lucky for me, March 2-9 I should be in Tokyo for work with no plans on the weekend. Figured it was a sign that I should go and look for my next guitar. I've been searching for a good deal on a used Soloist here, but haven't seen the right one. May not find it in Japan either, but would love to try.

I've searched the site (and web) like crazy trying to find details on years and equipment so that I can shop intelligently. I speak zero Japanese, but I have a decent understanding of the culture. Just am not sure on details of Japanese Jackson's and Stars. I'm looking for any advice you all could share.


Mostly interested in trying to understand the model denominations and what might an approximate value. In particular would like to know the SL3/SL4 (or 2/1 if they exist) are. Something with real pickups and a good FR.

It depends on whether it's a J1 (or TN01) or a J2 (TN02). Good deal for the former (ebony, MoP, hardcase...), bad for the latter (stripped ebony, MOTO, softcase...). Yen is strong against both the Euro and the USD at the moment, so Jackson Stars are expensive unless you live in Japan.

Are there any other neck-through similar styled Grover Jackson or Jackson Stars that are something I should dodge or search for?

[Deephaven]

Here are some tidbits from the forum I found extremely useful. Wanted to quote them here. Hope it helps others with the same question.
Where to shop:

Ochanomizu is well known for instrument shops.
If you're in Shinjuku you can get on the Chuo line rapid service (should be track 7 and 8, the train cars are orange.. can't miss it) and go two stops. Get out at the Ochanomizubashi exit and go down the street and there are scores of music shops.

For that matter there are a couple good shops at Shinjuku station.. personally I like the Shinseido Rock Inn shop, at the Southeast exit area. It may be a bit tricky to find but they usually have an ok Stars selection.. the Ishibashi stores usually have a few good ones too, and you'll find a shop at either Shinjuku or Ochanomizu.
There are Ishibashi shops almost everywhere... Shinjuku, Shibuya, Ikebukuro, Ochanomizu (where they have several shops), Yokohama, Tsudanuma (Chiba)
So if you want to find an Ishibashi, you probably won't have to go far.

I've stopped by the Ikebe "Rivole" shop in Akihabara a couple times, but I never made it to any of their other shops.. there's supposed to be one in Shibuya and one in Ikebukuro.

Key music in Shibuya is worth checking out... I can't exactly explain how to get there though. While you're at it there's an ESPee shop in that area as well, which I actually never checked out while I was there...

I took from this that I should offer 80% of the selling price or so?

This past weekend I gave a "haggling" tour of Ochanomizu to a JCF member. Afterwards, he treated me to a $10 lunch and a $4 beer. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

We managed to haggle a beautiful trans blue quilt Jacksonstars ASL-J1 down to 168000yen ($1440) from the 200000yen ($1710) price tag. He ended up not pulling the trigger on that one. Had I not promised my wife that I would only buy strings that day, I would have jumped on it at that price myself.

Since I am posting references that may help someone else, this was a great thread describing the cultural differences of the US & Japan.

Thanks to a helpful and anonymous friend for this info, which he has given me permission to post. It's a great insight into Japanese culture vs American culture IMO.

[ QUOTE ]

Japan is predominantly a cash society. The only thing you purchase on long term credit is your home. Cars as well, are purchased with cash. Although we do have shady loan companies with criminally high interest rates for the desperate and the foolish.

We also don't have the same banking sysytem, of course. Even our credit cards have only 2 payment options: pay the balance at months end, or spread it out over 3 months. There is no revolving compounded interest system.

So without a PayPal type of system, a sale is impossible. Many on-line purchases come COD.

Banks don't want to take foreign money orders. Three years ago, a friend for some strange reason got a $50 money order, drawn from an affiliated bank as a Christmas gift. It took 2 hours and tons of confusion at the bank to get it cashed. The net was equal to $18.00 after fees.

In addition, many sellers offer a 7 day trial period to ensure satisfaction and good feedback. A refund would be difficult with shipping fees being high. Would the North American buyer expect the seller to go to a bank or post office and purchase cash to discretely and dangerously mail overseas as compensation? Or more difficult, having to fill out a money order in English. This would be another hinderance.

Even if you could have someone help you with a purchase on a Yahoo Japan Auction, the fear of negative feedback from an outsider also makes dealing with foreigners too risky.

Even though our banks currently do not pay balance holders interest and a few top management officials at Japanese banks have commited public suicide in the past few years, due to thier banks losses or demise, Japanese people tend to only trust Japanese banks and Japanese currency. Therefore, if at all possible, cash must be used. For high ticket items, the purchaser knows the cost before hand and passes the money discretely to the sales staff. This in turn, is counted out of site of prying eyes.

So, no Paypal, no money order, no English, no dice.

That leaves the retailer. A large company such as Ishibashi can use the foreign capital to buy more store stock without having to lose money in the exchange. They have built relationships with the person who takes care of their foreign shipping, so there is no stress.

Smaller retailers have had to deal with irate, overzealous foreign customers that haven't reecived their guitars when expected. The shop owner has no answer for the customer, as the guitar has been shipped and the customer has the tracking number. The shop owner is berated, loses face and is soured from sending again to North America. It only takes one uncomfortable experience for many Japanese to close the door on something. Everything must have the appearance of running smoothly.

There is a set price in Japan for most gear - 20% below list. You will not get a better price at another shop. What you do get is cut rate or free service on your gear to keep you as a customer. Of course, this will not help foreign buyers.

A simple North American-style, 'What, you can't do any better on the price? At least throw in a strap and a few packs of strings', would put the Japanese staff member in an uncomfortable situation. This is a bad thing.

Many shops will ship to America by 'Kuro Neko' (Black Cat couriers). Going to the post office, leaving the store shorthanded , or having to close the shop is not feasible. The profit is also too low to go beyond normal effort for an unkown, possible one time only buyer. Of course the post office is cheaper-for you.

The sale must be smooth, easy, without much extra effort and trouble free. Otherwise, it is better to wait for a buyer that can make the above criterium.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks again for that info [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

Now, American culture on the other hand is an inverse-image of the above:
We deal in credit or ATM (debit) cards.
Cash is for people who don't make enough money to open a bank account, or who do not have enough money for any length of time to sustain a bank account, or who live paycheck to paycheck and all their money goes out for bills and whatnot as soon as it comes in, so a bank account is pointless for them.
Cash is also for those who have poor credit and therefore can't get a credit card (usually assumed to be because they don't have a stable enough work record to qualify for a credit card, with or without soemone to co-sign the application).
Lastly, you have people who do not trust banks, so they keep their cash to themselves. These are the ones you hear about being killed by a robber in their house for the $200 in their wallet but the guy missed the $30K stuffed in the mattress.

Money Orders are a pain in the butt for a lot of people, mostly because Post Offices and the people in them suck. Long lines, irregular operating hours, and the ever-present fear of soemone "going Postal".
Not to mention every one I've ever been in is not exactly in a "nice" neighborhood, so the fear of being accosted by some crackhead outweighs the desire to partake of their services.

Western Union money orders are almost as good as Postal Money Orders, and Western Union even has online options for sending them. Unfortunately, their BidPay service was only for Ebay-related payments, and also unfortunately, that service was bought out by another company who was not ready to roll with it, so the site's down.

As well, Western Union's primary online site only features BillPay services (where you send money from your bank account to your phone or utility company), or the Money In Minutes service you see in commercials, where the recipient has to be at the local office to receive the money. There was at one time an option to send someone a Money Order in the mail from the site, but apparently that is long gone.

Cashier's Checks come from a bank. Bank Transfers are also handled at the bank.
Going to the bank for most people is a pain. So much so, that many people have their paychecks directly deposited into their accounts by their employer.

In the Land Of The Drive-Thru Service And Home Delivery, "we" simply do not have time to stand in line at a bank or post office. There's a million other things we can be doing while we're waiting in line, so we tend to cling to any convenience that comes by - from microwave meals to online payment options, we want it faster and easier.

This leads to a staggering conflict with other cultures when we try to buy from Japan. Our fear and trepidation about going to the bank to conduct a wire transfer is also compounded by the "African Email Scam" situation.

But a little knowledge yields a lot of power, so it would be worth your while to go to the bank and ask about bank-to-bank wire tranfers for overseas purchases, and ask what type of security there is.
I think you'll find that it's a lot safer than PayPal.

Big thanks to TheSteveMan, Newc and Quantumrider for the info above.

[Botijo]

Jackson Stars were discontinued a few years ago. You'll find only second hand items.

[Newc]

Yup. However, you may also find them at considerably lower prices. My first JacksonStars NASL-160 was New Old Stock that had been displayed in an acrylic/glass case in the store, and was put on clearance to make room for the new-year's model. I got it for $950 shipped in a hardshell case. The original retail price matched the model number - $1600 - so I got a considerable savings, considering the case was $100 and the shipping was $120.

[ken]

Strange to see yourself quoted donkey's years later, but I don't think there's much to add: you'd be looking for a J1 or TN01, which have ebony, MoP, etc. and should be easy to distinguish from the lower-range counterparts. One exception being the j2sp-RR, the one hum RR CoB copies, which had MoP and ebony. Damn, I should have bought one while I could have.

Value is all exchange-rate dependent, but at the end of the life of Jackson Stars, there was a brief period where they were labelled as Jackson, so probably just best to search for that, particularly as there are few 'Stars about. The most comprehensive Japanese site I know of for 2nd hand guitars is here, but not all are the stores on the site are English friendly: http://www.digimart.net.

Both Ishibashi (2nd hand stuff can be found in ubox http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box/e/) and Ikebe-Gakki have English speaking employees, so you could contact them in advance. I still have the 7 string Jackson Stars custom Kelly I ordered through Ishibashi. Hmm, I should go play it.

[Deephaven]

Thanks for the response guys. Definitely chasing something used. Mostly I cannot think of anything better to do in Tokyo than buy myself a birthday present.

[col]

Thanks for the response guys. Definitely chasing something used. Mostly I cannot think of anything better to do in Tokyo than buy myself a birthday present.

I spent a week in Tokyo in Dec and personally can't think of anything I'd like less than run around town looking for music stores. Remember that the address for a place in Tokyo doesn't tell you where it is (they don't have street names), only the general area where it's located.

I'd suggest Ueno park or Meiji Jingu area for something more relaxing and far more rememberable.

[Deephaven]

Strange to see yourself quoted donkey's years later, but I don't think there's much to add: you'd be looking for a J1 or TN01, which have ebony, MoP, etc. and should be easy to distinguish from the lower-range counterparts. One exception being the j2sp-RR, the one hum RR CoB copies, which had MoP and ebony. Damn, I should have bought one while I could have.

Value is all exchange-rate dependent, but at the end of the life of Jackson Stars, there was a brief period where they were labelled as Jackson, so probably just best to search for that, particularly as there are few 'Stars about. The most comprehensive Japanese site I know of for 2nd hand guitars is here, but not all are the stores on the site are English friendly: http://www.digimart.net.

Both Ishibashi (2nd hand stuff can be found in ubox http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box/e/) and Ikebe-Gakki have English speaking employees, so you could contact them in advance. I still have the 7 string Jackson Stars custom Kelly I ordered through Ishibashi. Hmm, I should go play it.

Ken - thank you a ton. The Ubox link managed to get me a deal on a guitar. Had a Jackson Stars all lined up but was dumb and didn't join the Ishibashi site so I could email right and they sold it out from under me; however, for $180 more I managed to get a USA Jackson The exchange rate right now made it a better deal than anything I've seen here and the whole shopping experience in Japan just made it all that much better.

Guitar shopping in Japan is definitely way more fun than expected, the choices are endless!!

Here is a terrible camera pic of the transparent blue SL2 I grabbed.


Thanks for all the help guys!!

[QuantumRider]

Shit I haven't been on the site for a while. Had I seen this post earlier I would have met up in Ochanomizu then had a couple of beers with you (if you like beer).

Glad that you got a good deal on a guitar in any case!

[ken]

Congrats Deephaven, looks like a beauty. Got to love that shimmering MoP.

Hope all's well with you in Japan QR, BTW.

[QuantumRider]

Thanks Ken. My daughter starts elementary school and my son starts kindergarten next month. Both private schools, so I have been hemorrhaging money paying their school entrance fees, for their uniforms, designated school supplies, etc. I have been avoiding the JCF in order not to develop GAS!!!

[ken]

There's nothing quite as costly as children, but I'm sure it's worth it. Still, probably best to avoid admiring the semi-custom JCS option list for the, em, next couple of decades...