What I Have Learned

[DragonJack]

But I don't give a fuck that "the way I handed it" is available for others to see. In fact, the exact opposite is true. I can only hope that someone sees what came after your post and realizes that they should not "wash, rinse, repeat" the information the way you did.

Yeah you just flamed me and YOURSELF but you're too stupid to know it.

You're not too smart.

[DragonJack]

FWIW

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/action-jackson-1

[pianoguyy]

I have no idea what all of these unrelated images are about, nor what all the talk about karen and flames is.

Perhaps your mentality is better suited for a facepage or an instabook.

[DragonJack]

I have no idea what all of these unrelated images are about, nor what all the talk about karen and flames is.

Perhaps your mentality is better suited for a facepage or an instabook.

Oh they're definitely related to everything you posted

Social media is dumbed down and censored.

My mentality?

At least I have one!

The fact you don't know about the images is because you're out of touch and stuck in some phantom zone.

Your over reaction is key.

[DragonJack]

Again FWIW.

Premier Guitar has a major reach. If anything is wrong in their reporting of Charvel et al it is is "out there" and it behooves any other forums to shine a light on how the history actually was.

Are there any one on one interviews of Mr. Charvel (even from this forum) seeing as he's still around?

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Return_of_the_Hot_Rod_Guitar?page=1

[JJ119]

I had seen a portion of a Video that Grover Jackson was interviewed.
I can not remember what it's Title is.
He discussed some of that History they had.
When I have a Break at work tomorrow I will look for it.

[DragonJack]

I had seen a portion of a Video that Grover Jackson was interviewed.
I can not remember what it's Title is.
He discussed some of that History they had.
When I have a Break at work tomorrow I will look for it.

Thank you!

[JJ119]

DragonJack

What I Have Learned
when it comes to Jackson Guitars and Charvel Guitars is not a lot, but I believe is pretty concrete.
This Forum is an Encyclopedia Of Knowledge.
There are folks here who have spent more time digging for, and trading information for quite a few years, and have come up with a few " Spread Sheets "
[ for lack of a better term ] of information.
Some folks have kept their receipts from their purchases, Build Sheets, and pics of guitars that were said to be made in " X " year(s) but either shown True or Not.
As we can only imagine, with No Real Commercial Sales Records kept by Jackson or Charvel, discussions can EASILY get heated.
These folks are doing what they can, to Prove or Disprove the Rumors // Talk that can help
Owners // Collectors realize if we are getting
The Real Thing, or a Copy, or maybe even a Value.
Like yourself, they are Very Passionate about the instruments.

I have been corrected just about every post I get into,
BUT I count it as Education.

Somewhere there is a link to
mecas castle, where there is a pretty darn good History of quite a few Models.

Fender, from MY ignorance, was no better.
Not only with Their Own Brand, but Jackson also.
I don't know when their Records become reliable.

Please Understand, they are protective of their findings.
I am a Jackson Fan // Owner, Student Guitarist.
I am NOT afraid to ask anything, and I am NOT afraid to say what I have been told // read.
If // When a post goes up about a Model, History, Color, Made In, etc, some of them are interested in
some sort of Proof. Pics, Site, Build Sheets. Etc.
It's Easy to take it personally at first. But through discussion and Citing Sources, things iron out and sometimes there are Agree To Diagree endings.

I DO appreciate your info, and Everyone else.
it is Healthy to discuss whatever comes up.

There are some Very Talented Players, too!

Share your Knowledge. Share your Talent.

Most Of All,
Thanks For Reading This Rambling Post

[DragonJack]

DragonJack

What I Have Learned
when it comes to Jackson Guitars and Charvel Guitars is not a lot, but I believe is pretty concrete.
This Forum is an Encyclopedia Of Knowledge.
There are folks here who have spent more time digging for, and trading information for quite a few years, and have come up with a few " Spread Sheets "
[ for lack of a better term ] of information.
Some folks have kept their receipts from their purchases, Build Sheets, and pics of guitars that were said to be made in " X " year(s) but either shown True or Not.
As we can only imagine, with No Real Commercial Sales Records kept by Jackson or Charvel, discussions can EASILY get heated.
These folks are doing what they can, to Prove or Disprove the Rumors // Talk that can help
Owners // Collectors realize if we are getting
The Real Thing, or a Copy, or maybe even a Value.
Like yourself, they are Very Passionate about the instruments.

I have been corrected just about every post I get into,
BUT I count it as Education.

Somewhere there is a link to
mecas castle, where there is a pretty darn good History of quite a few Models.

Fender, from MY ignorance, was no better.
Not only with Their Own Brand, but Jackson also.
I don't know when their Records become reliable.

Please Understand, they are protective of their findings.
I am a Jackson Fan // Owner, Student Guitarist.
I am NOT afraid to ask anything, and I am NOT afraid to say what I have been told // read.
If // When a post goes up about a Model, History, Color, Made In, etc, some of them are interested in
some sort of Proof. Pics, Site, Build Sheets. Etc.
It's Easy to take it personally at first. But through discussion and Citing Sources, things iron out and sometimes there are Agree To Diagree endings.

I DO appreciate your info, and Everyone else.
it is Healthy to discuss whatever comes up.

There are some Very Talented Players, too!

Share your Knowledge. Share your Talent.

Most Of All,
Thanks For Reading This Rambling Post

Thanks for the civil approach JJ119.

There is the clumsy blockhead approach and some forget where they are and start acting like that ring critter in The Hobbit.



Anyway. Here is a clip I found that perhaps has already been seen but considering the web may point to just this thread, here it is again for all to take note of and it is Grover Jackson on camera doing the honors.

Jackson, from the podcasts I've heard him on, always had the word "complicated" to add to his tales of the history of the company and the people in and around Jackson/Charvel.

It would be great to hear both sides (Grover's and Wayne's) though considering Jackson bought up Charvel which gave Jackson his start.

So to say that Charvel had nothing to do with "building guitars" Jackson's progress/history no matter how things happened it gave Grover a vehicle and a springboard. And considering the climate at the time (you had to be there) Charvel did stir up vibes among the players at the time. No matter Boogie Body/Fender necks, taped up bodies and paint it was a transition period of looking for the next grail apart from Fender/Gibson. The look alone stirred interest. To discount that is narrow minded specially looking back from today. Jackson took off from Randy Rhoads' design pretty much.

The man's (Charvel) surname is on some of the product and even if one disputes who contributed what (and even if he sold his name to Grover), the name Charvel had some effect on a customer's buying decision. Might not have got the traction were it another name.

https://www.namm.org/library/oral-history/wayne-charvel

In the end they both lost their brand names to another company.

A brand name is an "intangible asset" and has value in and of itself.

Like Sears, Chevy, Westinghouse, Fender.

And in searching for history, it is crude and rude to turn an innocent question or statement into a Wack-A-Mole session.






See ya JJ119 and thanks for being the cooler head.

[JJ119]

There is a small paragraph in the Charvel Site that Parallels
what Jackson says about their working together at the Charvel Repair Shop up to the Headstock Branding.

And there is a small paragraph about it in Jackson Site.

When we have a Compassion of a Thing, we become interested in it's History, Use, Manufacture Data, Etc. So we do what we can to get that Knowledge, and record it as best as possible for Posterity.
Unfortunately, as stated in MANY threads and Topics, the Guitar Industry was not too involved in keeping records that amount to anything.

[pianoguyy]

The one thing that all of these stories don't emphasize enough is the fact that there is a difference between Charvel, Charvel, and Charvel.... and, if you believe that shyster, Wayne, we can add Charvel and Charvel to that list. All different entities that really need to be separated when talking about them at the same time. The only thing they have in common is a name. Which, Wayne will have you believe means he is responsible for it all. He is solely responsible for the entire 1980s Sunset Strip music revolution which caused the "shredder" guitar era. Please bow at the feet of the almighty Wayne Charvel, as we owe him our lives.




Wayne Charvel never made/sold/produced a guitar, nor did his shop, company, or family. At least, not until much later, when he tried to profit off of others' (specifically Grover Jackson's) success.
Under Wayne Charvel, there were no Charvel guitars made. Period. End of story.

Grover Jackson, as owner of the company, made the first Charvel.
And, if you want to nitpick, Wayne Charvel didn't even make the replacement bodies and necks he sold. Lynn from Boogie Bodies made them.
*speaking of Boogie Bodies, Eddie Van Halen never said "I went down to Charvel's and hung out with Wayne". But I have seen him (on numerous occasions) say that his "iconic" striped guitar was built when Lynn at Boogie Bodies said he could have the unsellable parts from the trash.


Just to toss this out there - I worked for Martin Guitars longer than Wayne worked for Fender, or Gibson, and almost as long as he had his little repair/mod shop. And I had completely forgot that I even worked there until a few weeks ago when someone bumped into me and said we worked together. But this Charvel fellow, he makes it seem as if his 3 years of running a failed business makes him as iconic as the unrelated guitars that later bared his name.

[DragonJack]

Something to ponder is Jackson paid Charvel according to the Grover on-cam Tone-Talk video above, USD$39,000.00 for Charvel's shop at a bankruptcy point in the business.
.

Consider that back then in the 70's $39k could buy you a BRAND NEW split-level 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath fully carpeted, with a family room and fireplace, vaulted ceilings, dining, kitchen with appliances, living room with a slate foyer and central air and heating with two-car garage and enough sod to tire you out on a Saturday home in the midwest.

Ergo back then when a brand new Chevy Kingswood station wagon cost $3,000... $39k was a big chunk of change for the Charvel "non-producing shop."

Then, consider Jackson still used the Charvel name even if for the "budget guitars" and if not mistaken Fender now owns both names.


So if Jackson poo-poo's Wayne Charvel for this and that reason in the Tone-Talk podcast, Jackson hung onto the name and used it for sure as he must've seen value in the name to use it. He could've easily called everything Jackson and thrown away Charvel and no one would think anything of it over time if Wayne had no notoriety or clout.

But that didn't happen now did it...

I remember when those two names came up back in the 80's even without the internet, the two names had a magic ring to them being joined together at the hip if you will and it still does in 2020. And I don't know why.


Back in 1986 I did purchase a brand new USD$2,000.00 Jackson Dinky HSS in white with ebony board, Kahler trem, pointy head stock and shark-tooth inlay from GC.

Either this is one big joke Jackson and Charvel are playing to keep the mystery, mystique and the intrigue alive or something is missing that is not being told.

I wasn't there so...

Take lap-steel guitars. Back then (1940) there was one manufacture of what are prized today of lap steels. They were cheaply made, wrapped in MOTS in all colors but they were sold under different names to so many department store chains and stores.

Magnetone, Bronson, Supro, Oahu to name just a few.

Valco was the mother brand for all those brands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valco

Pedal steel guitars back in the day were made by Sho-Bud which would've been Shot Jackson and Bud Issacs, but Issacs declined the partnership so "Bud" became Buddy Emmons. Anyone who knows pedal steel would know who Emmons was.




Shot worked on pedal steels for Fender and Rickenbacher

I wouldn't doubt that these same tactics are used today.

There are claims that the Jackson guitar company makes/made guitars for other companies.

Not saying I know that for a fact, but there are "stories."

A true discussion would be both sides like a presidential debate of both Charvel and Jackson in front of the camera at the same time..

Not this " that lazy no-good, no account so-and-so couldn't get off his ass to do anything worthwhile."

The status quo does not make sense.

But that hasn't happened has it?

Until then we keep the legend alive while those that know the truth keep silent or are not heard or believed.

The truth does come out eventually.

As with many on this forum I'm interested in the history of Jackson/Charvel.

No matter where that takes us.

[Mudlark]

Grover admits to some horrible business decisions, so kudos on his correct choice to keep the Charvel brand going.
Charvel already had a foot in the door of a certain market, so loosing that would've been foolish imo.

The fact that either man can watch decades go by as guitars with their names on them are being sold daily....
while not seeing a penny....

Life don't care about our feelings.

[DragonJack]

Grover admits to some horrible business decisions, so kudos on his correct choice to keep the Charvel brand going.
Charvel already had a foot in the door of a certain market, so loosing that would've been foolish imo.

The fact that either man can watch decades go by as guitars with their names on them are being sold daily....
while not seeing a penny....

Life don't care about our feelings.

Yes, ironic.

Grover opined his not ever being able to get his brand name back.

Both he and Wayne are cottage industry sized as what happened with Leo with G&L.

Great guitars but not the "heyday" of when they owned and controlled their brand name companies and were cranking out guitars faster than they could think.

This happens to many music instrument companies. Economics rears its ugly head. It doesn't help that intellectual property theft took advantage of the designs which was a constant battle even when Japan was the only major competition leading the American designers to make licensing deals to at least be part of the piracy.



Didn't help that Wayne and his shop was a victim of the DEW Paradise California fire in 2018.


Sometimes humans don't care about our feelings.


It was a great time when the Jackson/Charvel name brought energy to musicians and the music industry.

[CaptNasty]

Damn, I take a break for a couple of weeks to do some big projects around the house and a shit bomb goes off in this thread.??????

Pianoguyy can get terse and go all “curmudgeonly uncle” on you, but he is our curmudgeon uncle and has been for almost 10 years. He knows a lot about Jackson and Charvel history. DragonJack, you are the FNG have some respect for this forum if nothing else.

But this Karen shit that DragonJack is slinging about is some bullshit. He paraded out the meaningless racist cliche’ of the moment then proceeded to go “full Karen” while accusing pianoguyy of being a Karen. You can take that shit over to the Antifa or BLM Reddits where it will have a better chance of having the impact you had hoped for.

BTW in this case Pianoguyy is right. Many of the statements made by DragonJack were purely fiction, sorry no other way to put it. Like it or not this site is seen as a resource for Charvel/Jackson history. Putting up wildly inaccurate crap can have a way of becoming accepted as truth... especially when it relates to Charvel/Jackson and comes from this forum.