Your take on Japanese Jacksons

[Newc]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Originally posted by pro-fusion:
[QB] ..but because the USA guitars are carefully handbuilt--the necks and frets on USA C/Js are a bit nicer, due to all that handwork.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah - loved that 'handiwork' on the JCF01 Rhoads [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] The factory-melted tips, the wrong-ass color coding for the pickups, the bent v-plates, the misaligned stringthrough holes...

Also, the USA shop seems to be a bit more careful in its choice of woods--USA Jacksons seem to be more resonant and have better tonal characteristics, on the whole, than the Japanese guitars, which can vary a lot more in tonal quality.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">On that note, I've got a USA Jackson neck on a WRXT body, and it resonates better than my USA Warrior. Surely the neck alone isn't that good?

Newc

[Genebaby]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

I'm not a fan of the newer bolt-on import Jacksons. The PS3T Rhoads did nothing for me when it was around and the RR3 and KE3 I've seen recently at my local were the same. They are not of interest to me and nowhere near the quality of the original Japanese Charvels and the import Jacksons up to about '93. But they are not supposed to be either. They are built overseas and they are built to a price point and to a point in the product line.

Jackson showed us they could built awesome quality guitars in Japan but in the end it did them no good, being a US company, to have the import stuff show up the home grown goods.

If you are a US company making guitars overseas you are only doing it for one reason, to make a cheaper version of your US product. Jackson could easily give the order to produce another neck-thru line like the current US line and it could be done, but they won't of course. $$$ won't let it happen. Which is why the imports use lesser wood, hardware and have less handwork devoted to them.

For a company like ESP and Ibanez it's a different story. They are a Japanese company, Japan is their homeland, and they will make the best guitars they can there, and charge for it too. A top ESP is as good as a Jackson quality wise, and that's fine, we can get to choose which one we want to buy.

Korea is a different story as all it is at the moment are factories contracting out to make guitars that look ok as cheap as possible. No love, just contract money to churn something playable out. Still, I'm sure if someone said, I want a series of guitars made of the choicest mahogany, read Ducnan pickups and reals OFR's, they could easily make a guitar that would be quite awesome. Hell, that's like those Deluxe LTD ESP's isn't it? I'm not sure how the fretwork is or if they skimped on the body woods, but hell, they have an idea there.

Generally I don't think anybody would order a top end guitar from a Korean factory. They are there for an enitrely different purpose. To make OLP style guitars.

[pro-fusion]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Newc, I had the JCF-01 in the back of my mind when I wrote that comment--I was afraid someone would bring that one up. Despite that, my personal experience has been that most of the USAs that I've been around play a bit nicer than the Japanese guitars. Not a whole lot nicer, but *a bit* nicer. Either one kicks butt over any ESP I've played--including the expensive ones. But it may be that the quality level on the Japanese guitars is overall more consistent than the USA guitars--that's the downside of craft manufacturing.

As far as the tonewoods go, I was primarily comparing neckthrus to neckthrus, which is what I play almost exclusively these days. To me, the USA Soloists I've owned (and own now) have nicer tone than the Charvel Model 5/6/650xls I've owned. Again, the Charvels didn't suck, but it was just that extra bit of tonal goodness that the USA Jacksons had. And I did say that the tonal quality varies a lot on the Japanese guitars--maybe it does on the USAs as well, but I haven't had the $$$ to own as many of those for comparison purposes.

[randyvanmalmsteen]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Originally posted by charvel750:
So that means a Japanese Jackson can be equipped with a genuine Floyd, real Duncans, and real hardware to become an instant USA model then. I'll be hornswaggled, I had no idea, and all these years I've been chasing down the USA elite models. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never said that? where did you read that? I said that the DK-2 with those features would be better than the MIJ sl-3 [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Breadfan]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Originally posted by Richard:
Jack that was Dan Erlewine and the book is HOW TO MAKE YOUR ELECTRIC GUITAR PLAY GREAT.He works for Ibanez so he knows floyds and how to set them up properly.He also owns a guitar repair and restoration shop in Athens Ohio.Fenders are his big thing but the info in his books is priceless.Cleaning tips,set up tips,even radius guages in the back of the book. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does the book tell you how to set up a floyd?

[Shataan]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

"Not because Japanese folks can't make great guitars, but because the USA guitars are carefully handbuilt--the necks and frets on USA C/Js are a bit nicer, due to all that handwork."

I have to say this topic is full of pure shit. lol The quality of an instrument is directly related to how consciencious those who are actually building the instruments are. Not the country. So mu7ch for waving ol Glory eh? lol

Japanese factories no matter what the product is, are known for a quality control on the whole, second to none worldwide. It is also known that USA production companies have gone to Japan to inspect their quality control and production lines to see how they run them, and USA companies as well as others worldwide have adopted alot of the same production values as their Japanese counterparts.


I have tried a ton of USA guitars of late, from LPs, Fenders, PRSs, the works. From 1800 to 5000 bucks. I have the cash to buy any of these. What did I end up buying? Oh say by golly, a Japanese nat/blonde Jackson SL-3. (changed the stock trem for an OFR btw) Quality wise, and playabilitywise right off the shelf, the import was/is the better guitar. I compared it as well straight across to a USA Jackson of the exact same woods/build. It walked all over the USA Jackson, accepting the abalone inlay in the USA was nicer obviously. hehhehhhe

I`d even go as far to say, of all the USA guitars I tried that are new, none of them compare quality wise, to anything I have played of the same makes of them, that are 5 years older or more. IMHO, the quality of new USA guitars are going south so to speak.

[stevenh]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Just my .00002, but a CNC machine in the USA, doesn't cut any better than a CNC machine in Japan. Has anyone seen the quality of the Les Pauls coming from the Gibson US factory. Pretty crappy workmanship.

[pro-fusion]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Originally posted by Shataan:
"Not because Japanese folks can't make great guitars, but because the USA guitars are carefully handbuilt--the necks and frets on USA C/Js are a bit nicer, due to all that handwork."

I have to say this topic is full of pure shit. lol The quality of an instrument is directly related to how consciencious those who are actually building the instruments are. Not the country. So mu7ch for waving ol Glory eh? lol

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That wasn't my point, and I have to disagree somewhat with you on the rest of your posting. I have owned a lot of Japanese C/Js in recent years, and I'll be the first to say that the USA's I've played/owned have better feeling fretjobs and sound a little bit better (comparing similar models). Quality control is one thing, but you cannot mass-produce the highest quality fretjobs--there is no way to mechanize that. It comes down to handwork, in the end. Also, I would expect that the USA plant can afford to be a lot pickier with the wood they choose, since the guitars are more expensive and the production quotas not nearly so high.

I have basically admitted elsewhere that QC (meaning consistency between instruments) might actually be a bit higher out of the Japanese plant than out of Ontario/Corona. But that does not change the fact that the best fretjobs and tonewoods are going to come from a low-volume plant with lots of handwork going into the process. Obviously, CNCed bodies are going to pretty much the same everywhere.

[pro-fusion]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

By the way, I'm not really casting aspersions on Japanese Jacksons here--they are kickass guitars that are an outrageous value for the money (particularly the early '90s Professionals). It's not insulting to them or to the Japanese factory to say that they are not quite at the level of the small numbers of expensive, basically boutique, guitars coming out of the USA factory. They are different animals, really.

[Accept2]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Originally posted by stevenh:
Just my .00002, but a CNC machine in the USA, doesn't cut any better than a CNC machine in Japan. Has anyone seen the quality of the Les Pauls coming from the Gibson US factory. Pretty crappy workmanship.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm. Both of my Les Pauls are impecable in build quality, and finish. I dont think the Faded series that they make are great, but the good stuff is always built well. If it wasnt, they couldnt get away with what they charge, and they'd be out of business.

As for the CNC machines, its like a computer, and can suffer from GIGO...................

[RacerX]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

impeccable [img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

But yeah, I agree with Accept. I probably see more new Les Pauls than anybody here (I am in Receiving at one of the busiest Guitar Centers in the country). Current LPs are very sweet (better be for the price!). Gibson must have made huge strides in QC this year (?).

[Doc Dryer]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

OK...For STARTERS , I am NOT...REPEAT - NOT making ANY SORT of "RACIST" STATEMENTS ...so PLEASE...DO NOT MISCONSTRUE what I am stating here...I believe that a man of ANY COLOR SKIN, ETHNIC ORIGIN, RELIGION or POLITICAL BELIEFS is DUE...and will RECEIVE the SAME ASS-WHUPPIN as the NEXT GUY - IF they CROSS ME !!!! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

This is JUST one Old Man's OPINION ...

THAT BEING SAID, I will use THIS as an EXAMPLE...

At ONE POINT, I owned EIGHT Soloists {I'm down to FIVE now}...SEVEN USA Custom Shops or USA Selects, and ONE MIJ Jackson Soloist Professional XL that was made in LATE 1983...It is DEAD MINT, and I STOLE it from a guy {for $350.00 SHIPPED in it's OHSC}...that had NO CLUE WHAT he had, and had the warm fuzzies for a Les Paul...99.99% of the time, I would {will} walk RIGHT PAST EVERY USA SOLOIST that I OWN{ED}, and GRAB that MIJ Soloist Professional XL !!!!...IMHO, it had AS GOOD...or BETTER WORKMANSHIP - from FRETS to FINISH...than ANY ONE of my USA Soloists...

Once again - IMHO, Americans are LAZY and SPOILED as a whole...You have Joe-Bob working at Washburn in Mundelein, IL on the line - standing there on the line pulling his lever - and his train of thought is NOT on seeing a QUALITY PRODUCT pass down the belt {he is PROBABLY thinking about the 6-pack of Old Style in his 'fridge at home, his bowling league that night, and HOPING that he can get some STINKY-PINKY off of Betty Lou on the way home from the bowling alley later...He DOESN'T CARE if the NECKS are going on UPSIDE-DOWN on EVERYTHING that passes him !!!!

The Japanese - on the other hand - have a STRONG WORK ETHIC and sense of SELF PRIDE in what they produce, and would JUST AS SOON go out at lunch and THROW THEMSELVES on their Tanto knife and commit HARI KARI as allow a substandard product that THEY created go out the door !!!

Although the Japanese {as a whole} MIGHT not be the MOST INVENTIVE folks...Their COMMITMENT to QUALITY CONTROL, as well as their DUPLICATION and MANUFACTURING ABILITIES are PROBABLY as GOOD as ANYONE'S...if NOT UNPARALLELED...

ALSO, since the advent of Japanese-designed and manufactured CNC equipment making it's way to Korea, the product being turned out THERE {and - ONCE AGAIN - IMHO...I am NOT COMPARING Korean-made guitars to USA OR MIJ product}...has improved VASTLY...10-20 years ago, I wouldn't give $20.00 for a BOXCAR FULL of Korean guitars - Of late, some of the Schecters, Gibby-owned Kramers, and OTHER MIK guitars has improved 100-FOLD from a decade or 2 ago...

As a LOT of you know, I was {am} a HUGE PROPONENT of MIJ Charvel/Jackson product, and only layely broke up my Model Series Charvel collection...

IMHO, MIJ Charvel/Jacksone made PRIOR to 1994 are some of the BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK available in guitars today !!!!!!

[RacerX]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Originally posted by Doc Dryer:
and ONE MIJ Jackson Soloist Professional XL that was made in LATE 1983... and I STOLE it from a guy for $350.00 SHIPPED in it's OHSC

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">couple corrections Doc:

1993
its

[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[dangerbut]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Ill jump in. I have only played usa jacksons in the stores, because i dont know anyone who owns one and i cant afford one. But i have 2 imports. A japanese performer PS-2 (h/s/s, japanese flloyd) and a warrior (h/h, japanese flloyd). I got the ps-2 in around 1997 for $450 cdn NEW and i like it better than ALL the other guitars ive EVER played (PRS, Strats, iban, esp, etc) It NEVER goes out of tune, has great hardware, and in spite of the fact that i have played that guitar every day for at least an hour over the past 6 years (most of the time more) i have NEVER broken a string. Never surprises me in the middle of a show, and NEVER lets me down.

I want to be buried with that guitar.

As for the warrior, i picked that up around dec 2002 and i must say "What a cheap piece of CRAP!!" Volump pot started crackling about a week after i got it, strings break, and some times the flloyd pops when im whamming. But thats all OK, because i know the body and neck are awesome, and new hardware is cheaper than a new guitar. i allready have a SD dimebucker sh-13 in the warrior( it came with the duncan designed invaders) and i put a dimarzio tone zone in the ps-2 (but im changing that too), So new pots, Original flloyd, some deburring here and there and i Have another awesome guitar.

Now i just need $$$$$ for the parts.

Summary: Never REALLY played a usa, but i LOVE my imports

[ApeDosMil]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Japanese can do 100x better then Americans can on these types of things

Americans are lazy