Your take on Japanese Jacksons

[slayer]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

What [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/brow.gif[/img] Americans-Lazy, now that is a serious stereotype. I don`t think that is at all true for most Americans, there are lazy people everywhere. Americans make some awsome guitars, so your statement doesn`t hold up well. jack.

[dangerbut]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

A guy at work put it to me this way. When americans are in the factory building a car (that was his example) theres a great possibility that some employees are SUPER hungover, or some thing in the morning, then they go to the rippers at lunch, have a couple of beers, smoke a bat or whatever, then go back to work, and do a half ass job. Ive seen it at EVERY job ive ever worked at and im sure that you guys have too. But in other parts of the world, if you do a half ass job, theres a billion (china) other people who would love your job so they can feed their family and put shoes on their kids feet. In north america, we live to work. In Most of the rest of the world, they work to live. But im sure theres also some asians who suck back the saki at lunch too. Oh well. No honor for them. This topic is floppy. Anybody ever seen an asian guitar factory???

[RacerX]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

sake
[img]graemlins/fart.gif[/img]

[2Loud2Old]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

It's funny.. when I first started playing guitar.. I watched what my heros played and never gave much thought to what/how/where the guitar was made.

Hell, back then.. if Robin Crosby played a Jackson made out of dried cow-$hit, I woulda wanted one too.

I've grown a bit since then, if I'm looking for guitars to hold value, I'll look for the US guitars, hence some of my recent purchases have been US Jacksons.

If however, I am looking for players, guitars that I will usually play every day or so.. I don't give a ratt's ass(Gottcha Ron [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ), WHERE the damm thing is made.

I've got em from Korean, India, Japan, Canada, Chech, and good ole USA.

They're ALL good, thats why I have em.

For some reason though, the imports end up getting played the most.

[2Loud2Old]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

oops.. I mean
"Robbin" [img]graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Japanese factories no matter what the product is, are known for a quality control on the whole, second to none worldwide. It is also known that USA production companies have gone to Japan to inspect their quality control and production lines to see how they run them, and USA companies as well as others worldwide have adopted alot of the same production values as their Japanese counterparts.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah that's right. I work for Firestone Industrial Products (Air Ride springs for SUVs, 18-wheelers, etc etc) and the "company" has brought us a thing called "Kaizan" - modeled after the Japanese plants. They want us to clean the oil off the dies we use, the die carts we use to haul the dies, the floor at our workstations (press area), and the die tables/racks that hold the different pierce dies we use.
Unfortunately, the floor has about 10 years of rubber from shoe soles and forklift tires and die cart tires packed onto it, which means it will have to be scraped. YOU wanna use a hand-powered scraper that has a 5" wide head and a dull blade on 1/2" of compacted rubber/plastic?
Yeah it can be burned off or scraped off quickly with a powered sraper, but FIP won't put out the money.
As for cleaning the oil off everything;
The dies weigh an average of 300 lbs each - 150 for each half. YOU ever pulled a solid metal die across a solid metal surface with nothing resembling a lubricant between the two? They don't pay enough for me to pull my shoulder or back out doing that, so the oil stays.

Americans aren't lazy, we're stubborn. You get what you pay for. You want a Ferrari, you pay Ferrari's price. You want a Ferrari for the cost of a Hyundai? Kiss my ass. This is the message "the workers" have been trying to send to the boardroom for decades. Pay us half what the execs make, stop dicking with our medical coverage, and I want a damn day off to spend with my family, because I work for my own financial benefit and your product/service will always take a back seat to my family and what I want. Period.

I don't see how the Japanese can devote their lives to an employer, unless the employer is equally as devoted to the employee. You cannot devote yourself to a company in America - they change hands too quickly and decisions are made which severely affect the common worker but we are never asked if we want our job to move to Mexico or Taiwan.
Business leaders try to tell us (and get us to care about the fact) that they are doing it for the good of the shareholders, and to preserve their salaries, and they want US to work for THEIR personal goals, but also to agree that they can and will terminate our employment at any time for any reason.

In America, it is nearly impossible to move from the "ground floor" to the boardroom in a lifetime career. Those days are long gone. Today, a "ground floor" starter will only achieve a middle-management or department manager (usually in a production environment) even after 40 years of service to the same company. A Salesman will always move up because he focuses on the bottom line. You will never see an Engineer running a major US corporation, unless he's a better salesman than engineer. Engineering is an Art, and Artists think too radically to safely guarantee profit. Salesmen will do everything they can to get the money, no matter what. Engineers strive for perfection (as all Artists do), and they stall production with their constant revisions in pursuit of perfection.
But salesmen know where to find the money, regardless of product/service quality.

Newc

[charvel750]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

While Americans may be [img]graemlins/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] ..ahhhhh...fuck it.

[iced_earth]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Seeing how I am working in a foreign country at the moment I will try to add some perspective. I am currently working in Taiwan at a middle sized (for Taiwan ~ 100 people) engineering/manufacturing company. Taiwan has modeled their work culture after Japan due to previous Japanese occupation of the Island. Taiwan has nowhere near the quality control of Japan, so I can only talk about the work ethic in Taiwan and for Asians in general.

The fact that asians work hard is a cultural issue. Around here, as someone has mentioned before, you are grateful to just have a job. The average workday here is 10-12 hours. Working "overtime" means working 14 hours or more. People around here don't necessarily want to work this hard, but it is an accepted part of the work culture. I would not call it devoting your life to your employer, only following through on expectations.

It used to be people worked six days every week. That eventually changed to 5 and a half days. Now people work a half day every other Saturday. In my opinion, this erosion of worktime is due to Western influences. When people in the world can see how other poeple are being treated, it is natural to want a better situation. American's are not lazy, but they enjoy a working environment that has much less pressure and fewer expectations associated with it. Why not take advantage?

In fact, the culture in general around here has taken on a much more Wester influence. In the past children were stereotypical Asians, raised to work hard, study hard, listen to your parents and go to a good university. The current generation of children is much more lazy (from what many people have told me) and more rebellious then previous generations. The current generation's parents worked hard to earn money and give a decent life to their children, so now the children feel they don't need to work so hard. I think over time the world will eventually "even itself out" in terms of culture and work ethics. Information moves far too fast in today's world to keep any industrialized society isolated forever.

To sums things up, Asians work the way they do out of necessity and cultural differences, not because they are better than "lazy Americans." In fact, I am looking forward to moving home in a year so I can be a lazy American again. People really have it good in the states compared to around here, so enjoy it!

Cheers,

-Mike

(Was Bill Gates not an engineer [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] )

...and to answer the original post... USA guitars are the best [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] , but Japan can also produce some very high quality instruments.

[RP]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Originally posted by iced_earth:

(Was Bill Gates not an engineer [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] )

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think he means in terms of working their way up through the corporate ranks, engineers would not be likely to make it to the CEO spot.

It's different when the person started the company. But I wouldn't consider Bill Gates an engineer, but even if he were, he certainly has the sales/marketing, etc. stuff down that would give him a leg-up over a more traditional engineer-type if he were in competition with them for a job (not that he would be at this point, of course).

As for countries and work ethics, how does Fender's Mexican factory fit into the heirarchy of quality guitars, etc.?

[iced_earth]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Originally posted by RP:
I think he means in terms of working their way up through the corporate ranks, engineers would not be likely to make it to the CEO spot.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">RP,

Agreed.

-Mike

[Sephiroth]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

My take is that they're usually good FOR THE PRICE. There are swings in quality though. The first imports were excellent, especially the Rhoads pro, but Jackson felt it threatened their flagship USA series and killed it. What followed was pure crap with dots in the neck (IMO, don't bite my head off) followed by moderately-improved imports that were designed to be good, but not as good as those early imports that threatened the USA models. I like the DK-2's but hate the RR5 because of things like the lack of binding no doubt left off for the sake of preventing lost US sales. I hate the pricing of neck-thru imports because they're so ridiculous (especially on the level of local stores) that I might as well get a used USA model. Right now the DK-2 is my favorite import because it's the most well-rounded guitar and with the most typical-Jackson features found on a guitar with such a price, which is appealing to me.

[slayer]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

i will 2nd the DK2s value for the quality and appointements on it. Jack.

[diospada]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

I know ESP is a Japanese company, but Ibanez is also Japanese??? Is that true???

[heartfielder]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

I can tell you that I've recently purchased a Jap Model 5, a Jap Model 6 and A Jap Archtop Soloist Pro and these are some of the best guitars I've laid my hands on ! Even the Heartfield and Ibanez guitars I own kick ass ! Work ethic is the key IMHO and they feel that sense of pride while we're watchin' the clock ! We're more fun but they're clearly more nose to the grindstone and thusly a superior product is put out.

[img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[nicklun]

Re: Your take on Japanese Jacksons

Personally I don´t really care where it is made as long as it feels and sounds good....and of course is a Jackson....