Jackson DK2 Dinky - pickup upgrade ?

[thylantyr]

Guitar: Jackson DK2 Dinky, 2005.
Pickups: Duncan Designed
Guitar Playing Experience: Noob, six months, part time.
Amp: Line 6 Spider II.

Backround info;
I enjoy *trying* to play simple metal riffs; Iron Maiden,
Slayer, etc., on the humbuckers and I've probably
extracted the most that I can get from the Line 6 Spider
II amplifier combo, but I keep think there is better
distortion sound to be had, ie the nasty Slayer open string sound. They probably drop tune to get a deeper
sound, but I seem to be experiencing something different, unsure.

Everything is fine on clean tone, but the distortion is
strange to me when I play these riffs on the open
six string [ie 'gallop' ], the sound of the other strings
when plucked get drowned out as if there is huge output
from this string, lol..

I wonder what percentage of this problem is caused
by playing technique, pickups, or amp. I don't have
experience in these matters to help figure out this,
can you give me some ideas.

Should I change out the stock humbucker with a better
one? Change playing technique? Is the Line 6 ready for
retirement? .. all of the above ..

[Frigo89]

The Duncan designed pickup really isnt bad, but I also switched it out in mine, for a DiMarzio Super Distortion, GREAT pickup for Maiden stuff IMO

[mhalsey]

Y'all know what my suggestions are gonna be. Like to hear it? Here it go..... #1. SD Custom, #2 SD Distortion.

[thylantyr]

What's the story on various pickup brands? Upgrading
makes the biggest improvement in sound? Active? Passive?

Can you provide links to ones suggested ?

[soc_monki]

i think the reason the other strings get drowned out is because youre letting that low string vibrate when you should choke it off...any guitar will do that if you dont mute those strings correctly (and seeing as youve only played for about 6 months, i can see this being the case because i too had to start somewhere!)

the Duncan Designed pickups arent bad IMO...id upgrade the electronics (pots and switch) before changing the pickups. but i think the biggest improvement would be in working on your technique, rather than worrying about pickups and whatnot.

but...if you really wanna swap pickups, id go with a Duncan Distortion. thats what i like, along with EMGs, but that would involve gutting everything and replacing all pickups and wiring. if you just get a duncan, or dimarzio, you just gotta unhook one pickup and put in the new one

[Sunbane]

I would second what sock_monki said. If you're unsure about your technique, have someone show you how it's done. That will make a much bigger difference than upgraded electronics.

You have a pretty nice setup there, and you should be able to coax some pretty decent metal tones out of it. However, you may want to upgrade the bridge pickup later anyway. Just don't expect it to be a "magical" cure.

A good replacement pickup would probably give you more output (which causes more distortion on the dirty patches), and tighter bass frequencies. One of my biggest gripes with cheap pickups, is the way they sound "muddy" when playing palm muted riffs on the thick strings.

I would personally also go for a Duncan Distortion for a classic heavy metal tone. If you want something wilder, with a mid-scooped modern sound, have a look at the DiMarzio X2N.

[thylantyr]

Thanks for the good tips.

My choices would be.

1. Work on technique.

2. Pickup upgrade.

These are the ones recommended in this thread right?
**************************************
DiMarzio Super Distortion DP100: $70
DiMarzio X2N: $75
Seymour Duncan SH6: $73 - $95
Seymour Duncan SH5 Custom: $73
**************************************

re: EMG pickups
How does the EMG active *sound* compare to the SD
or DiMarzio listed above? Electrical wiring is easy for me, I don't mind entertaining this option as well even
if the installation is more demanding.

**************************************************
EMG-KFK Set: $230 {set}
[EMG-81 and EMG-85 along with the PA2 (20db gain booster) ]
**************************************************

20dB gain booster sounds crazy. Anyone have comments in this?

upgrade the electronics (pots and switch)
Which ones do you recommend?

[thylantyr]

Strings Questions.

I bought these strings to mess around with.

1. Elixir Super Light Polyweb
2. Dean Markley 2552 Blue Steel
3. Single D'Addario EXL120

I tried the Elixir and DM recently to see how they function. Are those good choices for the DK2 guitar?

Gauges 09-11-16-24-32-42

I was thinking, any reward by using a larger guage of
string, does it give me a meaner low end on the 4th, 5th, 6th string?
Or is the chunky sound a function more of drop tuning and electronics, not
the strings?

[nateb]

I use to use the Elixir. Found that they were overpriced and didn't do much for me. I stuck to D'Addario's. Lots of marketing wizardry out there. Don't get caught up in it.

-Nate

[Sunbane]

How does the EMG active *sound* compare to the SD or DiMarzio listed above?

It's really very hard to describe, but if you for instance listen to Metallica's guitar sound, from MoP up until Black Album, you have a very distinct EMG sound there. I would describe the sound as "sharp", while a passive pickup generally has a "rounder" sound to it. Think "blow torch" vs. "burning oil".

**************************************************
EMG-KFK Set: $230 {set}
[EMG-81 and EMG-85 along with the PA2 (20db gain booster) ]
**************************************************

20dB gain booster sounds crazy. Anyone have comments in this?

First off, yeah it is pretty crazy. In my opinion, an active EMG will already give you all the output you need, but different strokes for different folks I guess. I suppose Kerry needs all that output to drive his amps hard enough.

Secondly; just so you know, that kit will not fit in your guitar. It consists of two humbuckers (H-H), and your guitar has H-S-S pickup config.

I was thinking, any reward by using a larger guage of string, does it give me a meaner low end on the 4th, 5th, 6th string?
Or is the chunky sound a function more of drop tuning and electronics, not the strings?

I would say 'yes' to the second question. A lot of bands downtune for a supposedly more "brutal" sound. You will also need a good quality bridge pickup to handle heavy riffing on the thicker strings - a cheap pickup will often sound like sludge during such circumstances.

However, this brings us to the strings. Once you downtune, you will need heavier strings to counter the loss of tension. Too loose strings are difficult to tune, and are easy to pull off pitch when playing hard.

There is also individual taste going into the selection of strings. I personally prefer rather stiff action, so I tend to use rather heavy gauges. A lot of other people use very light strings, and can use a lighter touch when playing.

[soc_monki]

Strings Questions.

I bought these strings to mess around with.

1. Elixir Super Light Polyweb
2. Dean Markley 2552 Blue Steel
3. Single D'Addario EXL120

I tried the Elixir and DM recently to see how they function. Are those good choices for the DK2 guitar?

Gauges 09-11-16-24-32-42

I was thinking, any reward by using a larger guage of
string, does it give me a meaner low end on the 4th, 5th, 6th string?
Or is the chunky sound a function more of drop tuning and electronics, not
the strings?

strings depend on what you are comfortable with...ive used all kinds of strings, and have finally come full-circle back to DR's. they just feel and sound the best to me. i especially like the Extra Life strings, they just feel good to me and thats all i ask for! LOL plus, i like the Black ones...they look cool
as for gauges...again, its what is comfortable for you. i used to use 10-54 or 56, and really liked the heavier strings because i could really abuse them. now im down to 9-46 and i prefer them. i had to switch because of carpal tunnel! its not bad yet, and playing guitar doesnt really aggravate it, but i could definitely tell i didnt have as much strenght in my hands as i did before. but i still get a chunky tone. just listen to Billy Gibbons (ZZTop), amazing tone with 8's!!! or Tony Iommi...detuned to C# i believe with 8's and had nice chunky tone.

and i use 9-46 in E and D tunings (standard), and 11-50 in B tuning. it took a little getting used to since i used to have a heavy-handed approach to playing, but ive worked on that and dont play so heavy handed anymore. my frets thank me for that everyday too

as for EMGs...some will say they are sterile or whatever. well, they are more focused sounding and have a wider and more even frequency response than passive pickups, and i prefer EMGs, but they arent for everybody. and contrary to popular belief they arent that high-output. back when they were introduced in the 80's i believe they were, but now you have pickups like the Invader and X2N and even the Distortion which are just as hot and are passive. just different tones...passives are rounder and softer/spongier. i like the tight EMG tone, and they do sound different in every guitar. i have 3 with EMGs and all have their own tone. so thats a myth as well!

you dont need a boost with them though...if you wanted a boost id just use an EQ pedal or overdrive. Kerry King uses the boost because he uses JCM800s and most people boost them to get them into metal territory, but for most high-gain amps you wont need that boost at all.

ok, sorry if that was long...hope i didnt confuse you! LOL

[thylantyr]

I've been listening to the SD pickups here;

http://www.seymourduncan.com/SDToneWizard/hummer.shtml

Sampling 'dirty bridge';

SH-2, SH-5, SH-6, SH-8, SH-10, LW-CH1, LW-HMET

... all the sound to me

... except maybe for SH-12 "SH-12 George Lynch Screamin' Demon™"... it seems to have a higher tone.

What do you hear when sampling these?

But sampling 'clean bridge', I can tell the difference
on some pickups.

[soc_monki]

dont listen to those samples...the only way you can REALLY tell if a pickup is gonna be good for you and your rig is to try it. Duncans have a return policy if you dont like it and you can exchange it i think. personally, id just go Distortion and be done with it. thats the best Duncan ive heard...i dont like the JBs very much, the Full Shreds are kinda thin, the Invader is just too hot (it was a joke pickup...Seymour wanted to make the most over-the-top pickup he could and well, he did and people liked it. put two in a guitar though and the magnetic pull is so strong that they hinder sustain! you are warned! LOL)

the Distortion however is thick, clear, has good low end, a nice smooth midrange, and plenty of top end bite. the JB has a mid peak that many seem to find harsh and unpleasant, however in some guitars its a match made in heaven. my PRS sounded like ass with one though...just muddy IMO. but in a friends Aria Pro II it had that signature high-mid spike of the JB.

hmmm maybe i just confused you...LOL

[thylantyr]

re: amplifiers

If you wanted to upgrade from Line 6 Spider II, 75w, 12" speaker, what are some good tube amp choices
and effects that would give me some Slayer or metal type of sound ? What do most guitar players migrate to?

The solid state amp + DSP [Spider II] is good for starting off, but the overdriven tube sound seems interesting.

hmmm maybe i just confused you
It's all good, keep throwing me info

[soc_monki]

re: amplifiers

If you wanted to upgrade from Line 6 Spider II, 75w, 12" speaker, what are some good tube amp choices
and effects that would give me some Slayer or metal type of sound ? What do most guitar players migrate to?

The solid state amp + DSP [Spider II] is good for starting off, but the overdriven tube sound seems interesting.

hmmm maybe i just confused you
It's all good, keep throwing me info

that could be a lot of things...whats your budget like? how big of an amp do you want?

the Slayer sound is a Marshall JCM800 with a 4x12 and a boost in front of it. you can get a similar sound out of a Peavey 5150, or a Peavey Ultra Plus. probably out of some newer Marshalls too, like the DSL or TSL series. lots of choices!