Rant: Shouldn't MIJ Jacksons be considered equal to ESP?

[DonP]

Take a bolt on Jackson, like my new DXMG and compare it to a real MIJ ESP M-II or something.

If both came with the same exact hardware and pickups, why shouldn't they retail for the same price? Either ESPs are overpriced or MIJ Jacksons are underpriced.

Reason why I started this rant is that I'm really blown away with the quality of a $250 guitar. Compared even against the venerable MIM Strat it does better IMO. The fretwork is very nice. I've had MIM strats I've tried that cut your hands on the fret ends, or aren't mirror polished like these. Just too much mass production letting quality slip.

The rosewood used for the fretboard looks better than what I have on my 2002 LP Std.

I guess we are fortunate to have such great axes available for such cheap prices?

[blackendvampire]

Im not exactly sure, but I believe the MIJ Jacksons are very conveyer built system built, where as the MIJ ESPs are all handbuilt, I could be wrong. But look at this, ESP is a japanese guitar company with a well grounded base in USA, their custom shop is in Japan. Its kinda like how theres the Jackson Stars in Japan, their hand built and they do custom shop, but the regular Jackson MIJ's are just spec built, no custom shop availability for that. When you go to order a custom off the Jackson website, it doesnt offer MIJ, where as if you want to get a custom from ESP Japan, its right on the www.espguitars.co.jp website. Its pretty vague, but whatever.

Also, ESP Offers neckthru guitars for under 500 bucks, where as Jackson doesnt have a neckthru for under 1000. Which really, really disappoints me.

[VitaminG]

are those MIJ neckthru ESPs? Or MIK LTDs?

[Foulacy]

absolutely not. your MIJ jackson probably had little to no effort put into the building of it compared with an ESP custom. not even close!

[Ben...]

Yeah the 500 dollar neckthroughs are made in Korea.

[Carbuff]

Was the dxmg "out of the box" new or was it a trade in. Maybe a previous owner had it set up nicely.

[Ben...]

My DK2 was new out of box. I opened it. It was set up perfectly. Perfect frets. Nice dark rosewood. No tool marks on the neck. Perfect from day one.

[Rich#6]

Yeah the 500 dollar neckthroughs are made in Korea

Actually the 200 series that are around $420 are built in Indonesia, the 400 series at $680 are built in Korea. the old 300 series ones were MIK(same guitar as the 200s when they first made the change)

Its kinda like how theres the Jackson Stars in Japan, their hand built and they do custom shop, but the regular Jackson MIJ's are just spec built, no custom shop availability for that.

I thought most of the Jackson stars unless custom ordered were made on the same line( there are also ones made in the US custom shop for the Japanese market. The Jacksons in Japan are all sold under Jackson stars.
To me it's the quality of the parts that you put into the guitar. We all know that the Japanese Jackson factory can put out guitars just as good as their US counterparts-ala the "PROS". A CNC machine does the same job no matter who is running it as long as the have the same training.

[ozzuk1]

Standard series ESP's are mostly cnc'd however they posisbly have better woods and hardware only the really high end jackson pro series offer ofr's and they are the korean varients whilest ESP's have german made unit's...

Saying that the majority of jacksons from japan i've played have all felt really nice played well and had some mojo most of the ESP standards i've played have felt rather cold and lifeless granted I havent played that many butI like a guitar that feels alive...

ESP original series guitars and the custom shop models are much much higher quality...

It's all preference and im glad jackson are offering better pickups now, the bridges still might not be 100% great but the newer hardened steel edges on the dk2m etc are supposed to be much more stable...

[Newc]

Take a bolt on Jackson, like my new DXMG and compare it to a real MIJ ESP M-II or something.

If both came with the same exact hardware and pickups, why shouldn't they retail for the same price? Either ESPs are overpriced or MIJ Jacksons are underpriced.

Reason why I started this rant is that I'm really blown away with the quality of a $250 guitar. Compared even against the venerable MIM Strat it does better IMO. The fretwork is very nice. I've had MIM strats I've tried that cut your hands on the fret ends, or aren't mirror polished like these. Just too much mass production letting quality slip.

The rosewood used for the fretboard looks better than what I have on my 2002 LP Std.

I guess we are fortunate to have such great axes available for such cheap prices?

The problem here is you're comparing Made in Japan directly to Made In Japan, and ignoring the correlation between "top of the line" vs "mid-range".

Real ESPs (not LTDs) are comparable to USA Jacksons in terms of which tier of manufacturing they reside on. ESP-logoed models are the "top of the line" ESP models, just as the Made In USA Jacksons are the top of the line Jackson models.

As well, you have to look at the excess costs of running a business in America vs running a business in Japan. Does ESP have to carry the massive amounts of liability insurance that Jackson does? Do they pay zoning, property, and other taxes that Jackson does? What about State taxes and healthcare? What about import/export taxes? Environmental taxes?

Japanese-made Jacksons cannot compete with USA-made Jacksons. That's not saying the Japanese shop doesn't have the skills to do it, that's saying the Japanese shop cannot be allowed to do that. The damage that the original 1990-94 Pros did to Jackson USA did not go away in 1995. It persisted throughout the 90s, eventually resulting in the sale to FMIC.

Had those sales gone for USA Jacksons instead, I doubt Fender would own them today, though AMIC's stupidity would certainly have contributed just as much.


It's never a simple question of "well, they can do this, so why can't Jackson do it?". You must consider all the expenses associated with the business as a whole.

[DonP]

Was the dxmg "out of the box" new or was it a trade in. Maybe a previous owner had it set up nicely.

It was sold used at GC, but the frets and setup are just as nice as my SL2H. So yes, it is possible some tech might have set it up, but it's so new I doubt it. The finish on it is factory perfect - no swirls or scratches, and you know on a black guitar it doesn't take long.




What I'm saying is this DXMG seems to me to have just as good build quality as an ESP, given if booth came with equal hardware and electronics. Maybe I'm just not picky enough, but I just don't see ESP being radically higher quality than MIJ Jacksons.

[DonP]

The problem here is you're comparing Made in Japan directly to Made In Japan, and ignoring the correlation between "top of the line" vs "mid-range".

Not really. What I'm saying is that to me, mid-range Jacksons seem on a par with ESP and far as quality of built and features (bound necks, inlays, woods). Only hardware and electronics need to be brought up, but that doesn't justify the price difference in my book.

[markD]

having played ESP through most of the 90's (pre-LTD), i can attest to the INCREDIBLE quality difference between japanese made jacksons and japanese ESPs. the guitars i was playing (M2 deluxe and horizon) were more in line with the current quality of USA jacksons (or the 90-04 pro's).

the current japanese jacksons are good guitars but i equate them more along the lines of 80's ibanez in regards to quality and feel. my dxmg felt, resonated, and sounded like my 89 RG550 (i have since sold both). the dxmg's hardware felt cheap, the trem posts were soft metal, the neck felt like it was somewhat hollow....just NOWHERE near the feel or quality i was expected from a japanese jackson after reading what people say about their imports on this board.

my ESP M2 deluxe was like playing USA dinky. i actually prefer the 1 5/8" width of the ESP better (in fact i am current searching for 2 mid 90's M2 deluxes - a white one and a candy apple red one - like my old ones). the resonance and paint quality was KILLER. they came stock with OFR, SD pickups, and quality internal components.

in 1994 i paid $1499 for an ESP M2 deluxe with a hardcase. it was the first "off the shelf" guitar i ever bought that was exactly what i wanted in a guitar.

i think i am rambling, but having had both, i WILL say that the current japanese jackson's are NOWHERE near the quality of and ESP that's made in japan and says ESP on the headstock. things got all screwed up when ESP decided to make "affordable" models with the LTD's.

that's when i swithced to USA jackson's, despite my hatred for the jackson pointy headstock....

[blackendvampire]

You cant really compare actual ESP's with Japanese jacksons. I'd actually compare Japanese jacksons with MIK LTD's, and even Indo LTD's, My MH 250 is amazing, I deffinately feel its on par with my Rhoads 24 which is MIJ. That being said, Their all better feeling than a USA Gibson.

[pro-fusion]

Not all Japanese ESPs are created equal. The Standard Series is made in the Fujigen plant and probably sits at a quality level somewhere between Japanese and USA Select Jacksons. Custom shop ESPs are made at a different facility and are handmade instruments entirely comparable in quality to USA Jacksons. That's strictly speaking of the quality of the lumber and assembly. Hardware varies all over the place, and that's really where the Japanese Jacksons of today fall down.

The 1990-95 Jackson Pro guitars (NOT the entire Professional series, obviously) were almost as good as the USA guitars, and are probably comparable to today's Standard Series ESP, if not a little nicer. But that was a long time ago.