Rant: Shouldn't MIJ Jacksons be considered equal to ESP?

[DonP]

having played ESP through most of the 90's (pre-LTD)

Fair enough. Since you have a lot more first hand experience, I'll take your word for it. My experience has been with just playing a few Lynch models at Mars Music some time back.

I've owned an ESP M-1 Custom since 1989 (still need to get it painted), so I truely do love both brands, but my quarrel is that my practically new DXMG at $262 doesn't seem to be a 5 times lesser guitar. I'd have to have it side by side a real ESP to see what the differences are.

Oh well, I here the same thing about Gibsons.

[Rich#6]

You cant really compare actual ESP's with Japanese jacksons. I'd actually compare Japanese jacksons with MIK LTD's, and even Indo LTD's, My MH 250 is amazing, I deffinately feel its on par with my Rhoads 24 which is MIJ. That being said, Their all better feeling than a USA Gibson.

I have been a J/c owner since 88 and have owned a LTD-M302(MIK) and a LTD m200FM(MII). The 2 LTDs are the same guitar except for country of origin and a switch change. I even have one of the new MH401s on the way( I love my purple quilt tops). So I am not a ESP hater by far.
To me the Jacksons are better quality and playability by far. Fret work out of the box is great on the Jacksons the ltds may or may not have high frets.
The LTD for one are made from agathis a cheap wood-makes a big difference in tone and how long the guitar will last. The flame tops on the ltds are way better then the jacksons.
I could tell that there was a quality difference between the two ltds too. MIK was better( except for the nicer top on the MII).
The one big issue I had with the 302 was that even after a pro setup the action was still way too high.
I have also stripped down to the wood a bottom of the line jackson(India) and LTD( INdonesia). The jackson had one spot that was filled from a knot, the LTD had a shit load of cracks in the body. Big different in wood quality even on the fire wood models.

[Hellbat]

While we are talking about this, the local music store has a ton of LTD's and a couple top end ESP's. The LTD's tend to have "catchy" (sometimes sharp, sometimes just hanging out a little too far) fret ends. The models with binding, the binding tends to be very chewed up with lots of tool marks, pits, etc.
The ESP Horizon NT-II they have is really nice, plays great, has really good fretwork and is reasonably priced (~$1200 sticker) but the binding and fretwork is still below the level of my 2008 USA Select Jackson. The Jackson was a good chunk of money more though and I wouldn't slag off the ESP by any means.

[DonP]

While we are talking about this, the local music store has a ton of LTD's and a couple top end ESP's. The LTD's tend to have "catchy" (sometimes sharp, sometimes just hanging out a little too far) fret ends. The models with binding, the binding tends to be very chewed up with lots of tool marks, pits, etc.
The ESP Horizon NT-II they have is really nice, plays great, has really good fretwork and is reasonably priced (~$1200 sticker) but the binding and fretwork is still below the level of my 2008 USA Select Jackson. The Jackson was a good chunk of money more though and I wouldn't slag off the ESP by any means.

See, that's the thing. The frets on this DXMG are very well done, polished, no sloppy work. I was really surprised at how nicely it is done.

[Axewielder]

One thing I know is, you can't write an excel spreadsheet that adds up the features on a guitar and spits out the price. The guitar with the fewest features of all is prolly the Fender Esquire, and yet vintage or CS versions get thousands upon thousands of dollars. Go figure.

[goodwood]

In my experience, the LTD line 400 series and up (Korean made) are better fit and finish than the Japan Jacksons that I have encountered. As for the quality of the build I think that they are pretty much equal.

I also tend to think that the only thing different from the Korean LTD guitars and the ESP Japan standard models is finishes and some of the components like tuners and hardware. I have not run into any fret work issues with the LTD guitars (400 series and up).

[ozzuk1]

LTD's are not ESP's I wouldnt think about comparing my old ltd m-202 to a real Japan made M-II..

FYI LTD's apart from the 600 sig models and 1000 series are no longer MIK they are going to be redubbed the 401 series and made in indonesia the low end ones are still going to be made in china 100 series and below afaik..

Also bear in mind the newer DXMG's are being made with basswood bodies and it's unlikely the quality will be better than a more priceier ESP...

Made in japan does not necesarilly mean that the guitar is going to be great I have heard of plenty of QC issues with MIJ Jacksons even the RR24's, the Jackson stars however might be on a par with the ESP standards, but they also cost the same more or less.

You don't know if your S/H dxmg has had work done on the neck either to make it perfect...

I've never seen or played a high end LTD or standard series ESP that had bad frets or antyhing that you find on lower end guitars...

[Rich#6]

I just got my mh401 purple quilt top yesterday. Not happy to see that it's made in indonesia. The neck binding were it meets the fret board has a color that makes it look cheap in some parts, the headstock has a dip in the wood, the neck or the frets are not 100% straight( more attention to sanding). BUT it plays like butter, has a great feel to the neck and sounds great. Will it be around in 20 years and still play just as good like my model 6 ?? dont' know. I does look like the neck is a 3 piece though.

[goodwood]

I wouldnt think about comparing my old ltd m-202 to a real Japan made M-II..

Of course not!

FYI LTD's apart from the 600 sig models and 1000 series are no longer MIK they are going to be redubbed the 401 series and made in indonesia the low end ones are still going to be made in china 100 series and below afaik..

That's good to know. It used to be so easy to think '400 and up is Korea'.

For what it's worth I don't buy any new guitars that aren't made in North America. I will pay the extra money. I think it is tragic that North Americans aren't more protectionist. I have a lot of import guitars but most (aside from a couple) have been purchased in the private, resale market.

[Newc]

On the Protectionist issue, when Jackson offers the JacksonStars NASL as a production USA model, I'll buy it. Until then, I'm hunting these things down in Japan.
If they made the NASL a USA model series (NASL1 and 2) with pickup and finish choices (H-H, H-S-S, quilted tops, maple and ebony or rosewood boards), that's pretty much all I'd own.

Jackson makes excellent USA-made guitars, but their imports afford me the opportunity to modify them to suit my personal preferences without thinking about resale value or whether or not I'm "ruining" a $1200+ guitar. As well, when you can often buy 2 imports for the cost of one USA....

Then there's the whole issue of "there's no USA equivalent aside from Custom Shop" (see the JacksonStars RRs - 24 frets AND 2 hums STANDARD).

To be quite honest, aside from the Warrior, a few discontinued models, and a few Custom Shop pieces, Jackson doesn't have a USA-made guitar that truly interests me.
I've had an RR1, a PCS Rhoads, the JCF Vs, a USA Roswell, a 1990 Soloist USA, several USA Fusions and Dinkies, a '97 USA SLS, a Custom Shop ash King V, a USA Archtop Soloist, a Custom Shop USA Jackson Strat, and quite a few others I can't recall offhand. The only ones I've stuck with are the Jazz'R, a Custom Shop SLS, my Custom Shop WarAngel, and a 1990 USA Warrior.
Of the 25 guitars and basses I have now, only 5 are USA Jacksons. I have 3 USA Charvels, one LP Standard, three acoustics, and 13 Japanese-made Jacksons.

[Grandturk]

and 13 Japanese-made Jacksons.

That's a lot.... maybe even too many. Unless they're all the exact same model - then that would be cool. Like 13 Halford Warriors... oh, man.

[Ben...]

That's a lot.... maybe even too many. Unless they're all the exact same model - then that would be cool. Like 13 Halford Warriors... oh, man.

Fun Fact: There is no such thing as too many Jacksons.

[Axewielder]

That's a lot.... maybe even too many. Unless they're all the exact same model - then that would be cool. Like 13 Halford Warriors... oh, man.

You'd have no trouble getting a special run put together when you are buying all 13 yourself!!

[RacerX]

I'm with Newc, I have a few USA Jacksons, but the majority of my collection is MIJ Jacksons!

[Newc]

That's a lot.... maybe even too many. Unless they're all the exact same model - then that would be cool. Like 13 Halford Warriors... oh, man.

Correction: 23 with 10 imports:

4 NASLs
WRMG (Halford)
WRXT
Concert V
C5P (bass)
Morton
DR7