Rant: Shouldn't MIJ Jacksons be considered equal to ESP?

[ozzuk1]

Don P I noticed you said your XMG had the normal profile style LFR I thought that only the older Indian ones came with those trems adn the japanese ones post 01 had the jt580LP..

Whats the serial i'm sure someone here can tell us what year roughly it is...

Unless they went back to the 500 style trem...

[Rebirth]

Got to say I have owned a esp jh2 , kh2, and horizons all esp custom shops aswell as a usa rr1, 94 prof rr1 (amazing) asl1 and currently a usa sls snakeskin and a rr kevin bond import.

The mij jacksons are not even on a par with the esp standard signature or custom series, they are direct competition for the esp ltd series,
both are of a similar quality.
However as far as comparisons to genuine esp guitars go, there is no way that they are any way near them in terms of woods used parts used and feel. The prof series is competition for esp ltd, dean korean guitars, bc rich nj guitars, washburn import series guitars etc, not usa made guitars or high end jap guitars such as esp or caparison.

This is all subjective so everyone may feel differently depending on knowledge of guitars and time of playing etc, i used to think a boss metal zone through a marshall was the killer tone, that was untill four years ago when i found dual rectifiers etc.

Great forum by the way glad i signed up lots of good muso's on here and i must say i loooove jacksons!

[pro-fusion]

Every single LTD I've ever played has had sucky frets. Period. Some had issues with poor leveling. Others just weren't finished very well. I think of buying an LTD as essentially getting a project guitar. Once you get the frets properly done and replace the cheapo pots & switches etc., you might have a pretty darned nice guitar. I've found that recent Japanese Jacksons are a clear cut above the LTDs in terms of build quality and resonance/sound quality. Pre-1996 Japanese Jacksons absolutely blow LTDs away and are in the same league as the ESP Standard Series.

[99RR1]

I have a LTD Alexi 600SE (the pink one) and a USA RR1, RR3, RX10 and a JS30.
I dont have any quality complaints about the LTD I just dont like the way it feels as well as I do the Jacksons.
Here in the US the 600SE was over $1K where the RR3 and RX10 are way below that.
I dont feel that the LTD is that much more money worth of guitar.
Sure its neck through and has the binding,EMG etc., but it just doesn't play any better. Its more about "features".
I have never played a ESP logo guitar to compare it to my USA RR1 so I cant say how it would compare.
Maybe a better comparison to my LTD Alexi would be a RR5FR but I have yet to play one.
My favorite next to my RR1 is my RX10. I have EMG 81-85's in it and it screams. Its also super light (basswood I think)so you can play for a long time and not get tired at all. The LFR is its only draw back. Super nice frets, nice neck and nice finish.

I think it is important to play any guitar before buying because there are quality differences between guitars of the same make and model.

[SChristiansen]

I used to have a Jackson SL-3 Trans Blue MIJ with the black Back... I've played a ESP M-ll and a ESP M-ll STD... and I have to say that the Jackson is very on par with the ESP M-ll... The quality hardware and the setup out of the box was perfect... I dont know about the other Pro Series Jacksons but the SL-3 is right up there with MIJ ESP's...Now I have a DXMG and right out of the box it wasn't close to a ESP but the DXMG make great starting points. Just because the body is made out of Basswood doesnt make it bad.. some of the best guitars are basswood. and the quality of the DXMG Bodies and Necks are Great... So what i did to mine was, add a Original Floyd, Dimarzio Pickups, Pots and a 3-way switch and a good setup and now I would put it up against a ESP M-llSTD(Bolt-On Neck). So I think that the Lower MIJ Jacksons dont compare to ESP's but i feel that the High End MIJ Jacksons do. I also feel that the lower end Jackson's are better quality and make better starter guitars then the LTD's.

[DonP]

Don P I noticed you said your XMG had the normal profile style LFR I thought that only the older Indian ones came with those trems adn the japanese ones post 01 had the jt580LP..

Whats the serial i'm sure someone here can tell us what year roughly it is...

Unless they went back to the 500 style trem...

s/n is 9830030

The trem isn't a low profile JT580LP style, it's a LFR that has locking bolts out of the back that look like OFR bolts, not the Shaller JT590 shorter fatter bolts.

It's a solid baseplate, doesn't have hardened knife edges like the JT590 either.

[DonP]

In my experience, the LTD line 400 series and up (Korean made) are better fit and finish than the Japan Jacksons that I have encountered. As for the quality of the build I think that they are pretty much equal.

See, not my experience, but here is what I found out over the weekend.

Some MIJ Jacksons are set up wonderfully, with mirror polished frets and a great setup. Then other ones look shoddy with scratchy looking frets that look oxidized and not such a hot setup.

Seems sort of hit and miss. It seems like the DXMG with a bound neck gets better attention than the lower end necks missing binding or having dot inlays.

Just some observations I made over a weekend trip to GC and SA.

[ozzuk1]

s/n is 9830030

The trem isn't a low profile JT580LP style, it's a LFR that has locking bolts out of the back that look like OFR bolts, not the Shaller JT590 shorter fatter bolts.

It's a solid baseplate, doesn't have hardened knife edges like the JT590 either.

The Jackson site says its still the 580lp however the picture of the DXMG shows it with the ofr style bolt's...

So it could very well be a new one...

So who knows :p Jacksons specs and features have always been somewhat inaccurate...

Still if the newer baasswood models are as good as the older alder models they should rule, I'm not one of the basswood haters I have a korean maverick that is basswood adn sounds brilliant, very resonant too...

And I can see a DK2mM in my future...

[blackendvampire]

I have a LTD Alexi 600SE (the pink one) and a USA RR1, RR3, RX10 and a JS30.
I dont have any quality complaints about the LTD I just dont like the way it feels as well as I do the Jacksons.
Here in the US the 600SE was over $1K where the RR3 and RX10 are way below that.
I dont feel that the LTD is that much more money worth of guitar.
Sure its neck through and has the binding,EMG etc., but it just doesn't play any better. Its more about "features".
I have never played a ESP logo guitar to compare it to my USA RR1 so I cant say how it would compare.
Maybe a better comparison to my LTD Alexi would be a RR5FR but I have yet to play one.
My favorite next to my RR1 is my RX10. I have EMG 81-85's in it and it screams. Its also super light (basswood I think)so you can play for a long time and not get tired at all. The LFR is its only draw back. Super nice frets, nice neck and nice finish.

I think it is important to play any guitar before buying because there are quality differences between guitars of the same make and model.

Well sir, wonder no more...

I had an LTD Alexi 600 in Black with Yellow, So it didnt have the scalloped frets, or bigger cutaway the SE offers, but It was the same guitar more or less. The problem I found with that guitar was just the pickup, and the how freakin huge that guitar is, I dont like the extra wing portion at all, its just too huge. Other than that it plays great, the HZ pickup is weak and thin, but thats not the guitars fault. I have had my Jackson RR24 for over a year now, yes I bought mine when it first came out, I was stalking this forum back in the day waiting for jackson to make them (for me LOL) And I must say, The jackson plays almost identical, I dont know if the 600 series was also Japanese made, but their in the same price range, same specs, and the guitars acoustically and plugged in feel the same, my Jackson is just blessed with the beautiful EMG81, so its fat enough for me, and believe it or not, warm. So I'd say put an EMG81 in your LTD if you can scratch up the 100 bucks, its really worth it.

On a side note, I do believe that it doesnt so much matter where these guitars are made, as much as how their made, I think that Korea or Indonesia, could easily turn out custom shops, if they already dont that we do not know about. I see more of a thing of mass production to be the issue, when you have a quota of a certain amount of the exact same guitar in a period of time, your gunna go as fast as possible and have as few errors as you can. Its like how many people buy the low ends versus how many people buy the high ends, easy, right? Beginners grab up brand new low ends far more often than we buy high ends, or collectors buy custom shops. So the supply and demand gives us our quality, our prices, and our final outcome.

Summery, Each comapany turns out extremely high end guitars for around 3000 to 5000 dollars, semi pro line high ends for 1000 to 2000 dollars, mid range for around 500 to 900 dollars, and beginners for around 200 to 400 dollars. Honestly, It shouldnt matter a whole lot where its made, if you went to indonesia and sat in a shop and had x number of dollars for them to take the time to build you a custom high end guitar, they could turn out somthing equal to a USA made guitar, I gaurentee it, they have professional skilled luthiers there too.

[SChristiansen]

Well sir, wonder no more...

I had an LTD Alexi 600 in Black with Yellow, So it didnt have the scalloped frets, or bigger cutaway the SE offers, but It was the same guitar more or less. The problem I found with that guitar was just the pickup, and the how freakin huge that guitar is, I dont like the extra wing portion at all, its just too huge. Other than that it plays great, the HZ pickup is weak and thin, but thats not the guitars fault. I have had my Jackson RR24 for over a year now, yes I bought mine when it first came out, I was stalking this forum back in the day waiting for jackson to make them (for me LOL) And I must say, The jackson plays almost identical, I dont know if the 600 series was also Japanese made, but their in the same price range, same specs, and the guitars acoustically and plugged in feel the same, my Jackson is just blessed with the beautiful EMG81, so its fat enough for me, and believe it or not, warm. So I'd say put an EMG81 in your LTD if you can scratch up the 100 bucks, its really worth it.

On a side note, I do believe that it doesnt so much matter where these guitars are made, as much as how their made, I think that Korea or Indonesia, could easily turn out custom shops, if they already dont that we do not know about. I see more of a thing of mass production to be the issue, when you have a quota of a certain amount of the exact same guitar in a period of time, your gunna go as fast as possible and have as few errors as you can. Its like how many people buy the low ends versus how many people buy the high ends, easy, right? Beginners grab up brand new low ends far more often than we buy high ends, or collectors buy custom shops. So the supply and demand gives us our quality, our prices, and our final outcome.

Summery, Each comapany turns out extremely high end guitars for around 3000 to 5000 dollars, semi pro line high ends for 1000 to 2000 dollars, mid range for around 500 to 900 dollars, and beginners for around 200 to 400 dollars. Honestly, It shouldnt matter a whole lot where its made, if you went to indonesia and sat in a shop and had x number of dollars for them to take the time to build you a custom high end guitar, they could turn out somthing equal to a USA made guitar, I gaurentee it, they have professional skilled luthiers there too.

I totally agree with your statement. One of the Reasons I never understood why Chinese Guitar Manufacturers build cheap fake copies of US guitars when they could easily make there own Guitar Company with the same high quality guitars and make more money because of cheap labor pay there. I dont dont understand, they have all the same Technology and Luthiers and workers and plants, they could really make the best guitars and sell them cheaper then everyone else and still make as much money if not more.. but they still continue to waste there time making cheap low end copy guitars.

[goodwood]

Every single LTD I've ever played has had sucky frets. Period.

Just for contrast, I've never even run into a 200 series LTD that had poor frets. Admittedly, there haven't been many that I have picked up because I normally stuck to the later model Korean LTD or the Japan ESP but the few that I have tried were great and the dozens of 400 series & 1000 series I've tried were some of the best fretwork on production guitars that I've ever encountered.

[blackendvampire]

Just for contrast, I've never even run into a 200 series LTD that had poor frets. Admittedly, there haven't been many that I have picked up because I normally stuck to the later model Korean LTD or the Japan ESP but the few that I have tried were great and the dozens of 400 series & 1000 series I've tried were some of the best fretwork on production guitars that I've ever encountered.

Like I said, my MIK MH 250 which is neckthru, is right up there with my MIJ Jackson Rhoads, The only real huge difference is the Jackson has a flatter thinner neck, which once Im play, I cant tell the difference honestly. Then again I can play sweep arpeggios on a nylon string acoustic.

[Newc]

Getting back to the thread title: Given that the ESP-branded models are the tops in that line, if MIJ Jacksons (The Professional series - RR5, SL3, etc etc) were made like that, you'd have the same problem you had with the 1990-94 neckthrough Pros, and J/C would fail.

This fact cannot be avoided by any amount of logic or reasoning.

[pro-fusion]

Just for contrast, I've never even run into a 200 series LTD that had poor frets. Admittedly, there haven't been many that I have picked up because I normally stuck to the later model Korean LTD or the Japan ESP but the few that I have tried were great and the dozens of 400 series & 1000 series I've tried were some of the best fretwork on production guitars that I've ever encountered.

Every time I pick up a 1000-series LTD at the store, I put it down within a minute or two because the frets are sharp and uncomfortable. And that is not true with the real ESPs.

Getting back to the thread title: Given that the ESP-branded models are the tops in that line, if MIJ Jacksons (The Professional series - RR5, SL3, etc etc) were made like that, you'd have the same problem you had with the 1990-94 neckthrough Pros, and J/C would fail.

That's the bottom line, right there. It's silly to say this or that country inherently makes better guitars. Chinese workers have a cultural tradition of craftsmanship and attention to detail that goes back thousands of years, and they could undoubtedly make killer handmade guitars. But that's not what they're getting paid to do. They're employed to work on an assembly line making cheapo starter guitars.

Heck, we already know that the Japanese Jackson factory can delivery very high quality at a price that would put USA Jackson out of business if they were competitors. I'll be curious to see if FMIC tries to shift import Jackson production to Mexico at some point. It would make sense from a corporate standpoint.

[blackendvampire]

Every time I pick up a 1000-series LTD at the store, I put it down within a minute or two because the frets are sharp and uncomfortable. And that is not true with the real ESPs.



That's the bottom line, right there. It's silly to say this or that country inherently makes better guitars. Chinese workers have a cultural tradition of craftsmanship and attention to detail that goes back thousands of years, and they could undoubtedly make killer handmade guitars. But that's not what they're getting paid to do. They're employed to work on an assembly line making cheapo starter guitars.

Heck, we already know that the Japanese Jackson factory can delivery very high quality at a price that would put USA Jackson out of business if they were competitors. I'll be curious to see if FMIC tries to shift import Jackson production to Mexico at some point. It would make sense from a corporate standpoint.

And then I'd suggest the japanese "Jackson Stars" goes one step further, and changes the name to just stars, modifies the body shapes only slightly and eats the USA Jacksons alive.