San Dimas Concert Bass--I've got one!

[pro-fusion]

I just came home a couple of hours ago with SLO100's old J1157 1985 Concert bass! Bought it at Atomic Music in College Park, MD, for a very reasonable price. I saw it there a month ago, and being surprised that no one had snapped it up, decided to give it a new home.

I've been playing a Kramer Spector NS-2 up until now, and the two basses couldn't be more different. The NS-2 is very bright and punchy, where the Concert is very growly and deep, like a P-Bass. Of course, that may partially be due to the pickups. The NS-2 has a standard passive P/J combination, where the Concert has an EMG P/HB combo that reminds me a bit of an old Gibson bass.

One issue I've been having with the Concert is that the pickups are so hot that I've been overloading every setup I've tried it on when playing the E-string, including some very stout amps at the store. Lowering the P pickup seems to help, but dulls the sound a bit. Any ideas how I can fix this? I'm a home recordist and my setup for bass is simple--Johnson J-Station into the mixing board. I'm considering getting a Bass Pod.

Also, how much of an improvement would an 18-volt wiring setup be? I know they are recommended by EMG. The Concert has the old small San Dimas control cavity, but I could probably shoehorn another battery in there if I had to.

[pro-fusion]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Oh, and I will post pictures of my little Jackson family soon.

I can't afford to keep both basses, and that's a bit of a shame, as the Concert and NS-2 do compliment each other in many ways. Since I've been going more towards a pure metal sound recently, the growl of the Concert bass is probably more appropriate.

[Metal Mitch]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Congrats, let's see her! If you don't mind me asking, what's a very reasonable price for a 1985 San Dimas?

Regarding your output problem, if it's only happening on the E string a simple pickup adjustment should take care of it. Adjust the pickups for even string volume, and to hit the pickup's "sweet spot" for tone - not to control the output of the bass.

If your overall output is still too hot, make sure you're using the active input or input pad on the amp. For direct recording you may need a DI with a pad. Try an amp with an input gain knob, or even simpler, just use the master volume on the bass.

A lot of guys on another bass forum I visit have talked about going to 18v. It's an easy mod to do, and from what I've heard it gives you increased headroom and clarity with fatter lows.

[pro-fusion]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Thanks, Mitch. Being a guitarist, I must admit that recording bass is still somewhat of a mysterious process for me--and I've been doing it for almost 20 years! Poorly, most of the time.

Needless to say, the J-Station doesn't have an input pad, since it is primarily designed for guitar. In modelers, you have to go all the way up to the Bass PODxt Pro to get a freakin' pad switch! I think a DI box would be a little cheaper than that! I guess you can accomplish much the same thing by lowering the drive control.

Anyway, I got quite a deal on the Concert--$375. Couldn't pass that up. I think I paid more for the Spector NS-2, which is an import.

[Newc]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Are they genuine (logoed) EMGs or the covered Jacksons? Is there an internal board? If they're EMGs with an internal board, that might be a booster like in the old Soloists (sounds like one of my kinda mods [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ), in which case I'd remove the board. If it's the original bass-boost board (high and low boost/cut) try futzing with the knobs, or remove it completely. The EMGs I had in my Winger (no board) didn't overload anything, and none of my Concert basses did either.

Newc

[pro-fusion]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

They are logoed active EMGs. There is no boost circuit inside. In fact, the pickup switch has been disconnected, which makes sense to me, given that there is a volume control for each pickup. No master volume, though. Just volume/volume/tone. I found the pickup switch on my Spector to be a real nuisance, since I mostly ran both pickups.

I'll probably end up just reducing the volume control on each pickup by a bit until I don't distort anymore. It would be easier if I had a master volume, but I don't feel like dicking around with it unless I can install a concentric pot for that (no routing). EMG doesn't supply concentric volume pots, though a lot of their active tone circuits do feature concentric pots.

Supposedly backing off on the volume controls on EMGs has less effect on tone than it does on passive pickups. We'll see. Either way, that is probably preferable to reducing the input gain on my J-Station, since that seems to have a drastic effect on the tone. To get a good sound out of most modelers (guitar or bass), you have to keep the gain, and channel and master volumes pretty high, in my experience.

[pro-fusion]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

I was pretty surprised at how much the Concert overloaded everything I tried it on, while playing it at the store. It seems to be pretty damn close to line-level output. On one amp, even turning down the input gain knob to zero didn't eliminate the distortion on the two lower strings (but mostly the E). I initially thought it might be an old battery, but that's not the case.

I do like the tone on the Concert, so I don't plan on getting rid of it, but we'll see. I might be better off with a passive pickup setup. Any recommendations on a good set of passives--with one being guitar-humbucker sized?

[Metal Mitch]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Man, that's a great deal!!!

Newc brings up an interesting point. But I'd have to disagree with removing the board. It's not like a guitar booster which is designed to overdrive the front end of an amp. A bass board is designed for active EQ, and removing it will take away your tone controls onboard the bass.

Another thing I'd check is whether you're actually overloading the input gain on the amp, or just running out of headroom. Most active basses can add +12 to +15db with their low control. Every +3db of lows you add will require double the power to reproduce cleanly, and 10 times the power for +10db. So you can see how easy it is to make your speakers fart when even a "big amp" can run out of headroom with a small tweak of your low control. That's why I use an 1800 watt QSC power amp... [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Edit: Ok, I was writing same time you were and didn't see your new posts... if the input pad is on and the input gain is down, you're most likely running out of headroom. See if backing off the lows fixes the problem. If it does, you need a lot more watts to support the lows those pups are putting out! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[pro-fusion]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Yeah, I think the tone control is just a high roll-off like you'd find on a guitar. I'm considering one of the EMG circuits, but I'm going to play around with my setup some more tonight when I get home before I make any decisions.

If I needed to add another pot to the three I have now, I could probably remove the dormant pickup switch and rout the hole out a bit to fit a fourth pot. That would be good for a master volume, perhaps. But I would rather have some more tone-shaping controls. You have to remember that this bass was made in 1985, and I don't recall basses being made back then with the kind of advanced wiring and circuitry that so many have now. You pretty much saw just the old P and J bass controls dating back to the 1950s.

Also, going to 18V would add headroom, even if it also supposedly increases output greatly. Of course, since the output is so high (probably near line-level), I might consider just plugging directly into the board and using the onboard compression effect and parametric EQ in my Akai recorder/mixer.

I'm probably going to stick with the EMG setup and figure out a way to make it work right. The HB pickup in the bridge position is the same size as an EMG guitar humbucker, and I can't find any other bass pickup that would fit without modifying the body, which I don't want to do. Also, the EMGs sound great--it's just the output level I'm having problems with. But those pickups really give you a full slamming sound. The difference between the Concert w/EMGs and other basses I tried at the store through regular bass amps was dramatic. The Concert sounded 100% bigger and fuller--really good for metal, though probably not for funk or pop.

[ January 13, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: pro-fusion ]

[pro-fusion]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

BTW, thanks for all your help, guys. I'm such an ignoramus when it comes to bass, even though I've been playing it as a recording tool for many years. I was always just plug-and-play, which is probably why the bass on my recordings has never sounded that great, even if the playing is ok.

[Metal Mitch]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Yikes... active pickups with passive volume and tone controls is kind of self-defeating. Your tone will probably change when you turn down the volume, just like with passive pickups.

With active circuits you can adjust your output level without changing your tone. As well as dialing in the tone you want without the need for an amp or outboard pre.

EMG is putting all their bass pickups in that humbucker-sized package now, it's called the Extended Series. Pretty cool because one size fits all and they all have those quick connect wiring harnesses, which makes swapping pickups a breeze with no soldering.

The BTC System would be ideal for that bass without drilling. Master volume, pickup blend and stacked treble/bass controls. If you feel comfortable drilling out the switch hole, you could go with the BQC System which adds the sweepable mid control. That would be the ticket, IMO. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Actually EMG's bass humbucker design is not compatible with the old Concert-style humbucker design - it's the same size as a guitar pickup (I had one - been there, seen it [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ).
Anyhoo, I think RobL around here might have a spare Jackson bass humbucker (don't quote me), and you might try a genuine Fender P-bass pickup.
Before I got rid of my SD Concert with the hummer, I had thought about putting a Duncan Distortion in it - maybe do some Motorhead [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Newc

[Metal Mitch]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Originally posted by Newc:
Actually EMG's bass humbucker design is not compatible with the old Concert-style humbucker design - it's the same size as a guitar pickup (I had one - been there, seen it [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ).
Anyhoo, I think RobL around here might have a spare Jackson bass humbucker (don't quote me), and you might try a genuine Fender P-bass pickup.
Before I got rid of my SD Concert with the hummer, I had thought about putting a Duncan Distortion in it - maybe do some Motorhead [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Newc

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very cool, didn't know that about the older EMG packaging.

I wouldn't drop a Fender in there unless I was going for "vintage tone"... a DiMarzio Model P or Duncan Quarter Pounder would be much better passive options.

[Newc]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

What pickups did Steve Harris use? I thought they were Fenders?
Anyhoo, I had a Fender Mexi-P bass that sounded damn good with the stock pickups in it (course I was running it through an ADA MP-1 so the tube helps some [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )

Newc

[pro-fusion]

Re: San Dimas Concert Bass--I\'ve got one!

Actually, EMG still makes the HB pickup--though I don't think many people install them anymore, given the availability of the new Extended series.

The HB (which used to be called the SS, according to the EMG site) is actually just their P pickup in a guitar humbucker casing. So, effectively, I have two P pickups on my guitar.

Thanks for the tip about finding a Jackson bass humbucker, Newc. I really want to stick with the EMGs unless there's no way I can make it work.

We'll see how the volume-attenuation option works on the EMGs--hopefully it doesn't change the tone too much. I might go for that BTC system, assuming that the three pots (which are all attached to the circuit board) line up correctly with the holes in my bass. Since I don't play live, I'm not as concerned about having a sweepable mid control--I can handle that in the mixer.