Kahler trem - pros and cons?

[Swede]

Hi guys,
I'm on my way to aquire another guitar for my Jackson CS collection...
This one has got a Kahler trem to it and my only experience with that is from the 80's and a modified Fernandes guitar I had back then. My vauge memories is that I never got it to keep the tuning... But that was looong ago.
So what's your experience? I mean - they still manufacture it and there seems to be some people still using it so it can't be all that bad, can it???

[Axewielder]

Is this the cam type trem or the fulcrum trem?

[Swede]

Huh - I don't have a clue... The guitar is manufactured -98, if that is helpful?

Edit - Now I have a clue thanks to Google - it's the cam type.

[RR0849]

The best thing about Kahlers is how you can adjust string spacing and height of each string separately. That's a huge advantage when you want to set up a guitar just right for yourself. I've not had any tuning problems but I've only owned around 40 Kahler trem guitars so someone with 3 FR guitars probably knows a lot better. They might even have read something on the internet forums about them and can share that info.
For the record I don't use the whammy bar much so won't comment on that.

[neilli]

Some people love them, some hate them. They generally have a 'lighter' feel than a Floyd, and one feature of the design is that the strings don't flap against the board when you use the arm as the rollers keep the strings at a set height. You can also adjust individual string height and string spacing fairly easily. However, some people hate the feel of the arm, and dislike the tonal change. One thing that most people seem to dislike is the 'behind the nut' string lock though. They're kinda ugly and I've had some problems with strings slipping in them.

Personally, I prefer Floyds, but I'm happy to take a Kahler on the right guitar

[Axewielder]

There are a lot of thread on this, but I'll bite.

Kahler pros:

- Fine tuning of saddle radius
- Fine tuning of string spacing
- Modern version has set screw for fixed bridge mode

Kahler cons:

- More tedius to do simple action adjustments
- Single locking inferior tuning stability to double locking trem
- Complicated design with lots of parts, tough to clean
- Tiny SAE wrenches
- Expensive to get replacement parts
- Usually paired with slippery Kahler stringlock
- Doesn't flutter that well
- Kinda ghey

Thought I'd slip that last one it there. The "pros" really aren't that compelling to most people. Note the Kahler fanboys should be arriving shortly with their unfalsifiable claims centered around "feel", "tone", and "mojo".

[neilli]

Note the Kahler fanboys should be arriving shortly with their unfalsifiable claims centered around "feel", "tone", and "mojo".

I think that argument could be applied to Floyd fanboys too After all, it comes down to personal preference, and while most people prefer Floyds, that doesn't make Kahler fans wrong

[Axewielder]

I think that argument could be applied to Floyd fanboys too

Very true! I've owned two Kahler trems, and actually liked them. I think in fairness the Kahler stringlocks get lumped in with the JT6 stringlocks in these debates, which were much worse as far as slippage goes. I'm still stinging from the last Kahler Floyd-type nut I owned. It slipped like a mother, and I had to cough up $60 for a new one from Kahler.

[ralph]

For me, I like the way how the action stays level when pulling up or diving with a kahler

I dont like how the action goes lower when pulling up on a floyd and higher when diving

However I much prefer how the strings are locked into the floyd at the bridge. Floyds are double locking where as Kahlers only lock at the nut.

I dont use the bar much so I dont have tuning stability problems with the Kahler, I kind of prefer it as the fine tuning is smoother than on a floyd, but I tend to break the high e string during pull ups on the kahler where the string is wound around the ball. This never happens when using my Floyded guitars. And there is no way i could be bothered soldering the wound part of the string (which can help preserve the string life when using a kahler)

So purely on a functionality basis (no tuneability) i have two pros and two cons each. (i dont care about the string spacing or radius adjustment)

hope this helps!

[neilli]

One thing I've found is that the Kahler seems to 'float' better i.e. tighting one string on a floyd sends the others way flat and vice versa. In my experience, that effect is less pronounced with a Kahler.

[Accept2]

Alot of the complaints people have about Kahlers wouldnt happen if they just used the proper strings and properly maintained the units............

[1fastdog]

Like others have said, it's really personal preferance.

I have owned several Soloists with Kahler Pro's. The tone comments are somewhat misleading. There are different rollers of steel, brass, or teflon/composite. Differing tone from all. My favorite is the teflon/composite from Wammi. Superb and natural tone and great sustain. Not a difficult swap.

The issue I have with Floyds which hasn't been mentioned is: if you palm rest your hand on the tailpiece and haven't locked the Floyd from being capable to pull the strings sharp in a trem arm techmique, you will consistantly drive the guitar sharp. This may not be an issue for you, but I played vintage Les Pauls for a number of years prior to switching to Jackson as a number one axe... This deal is not an issue with the Kahler fulcrum pro versions. Parts for Kahlers are not everywhere, but they aren't "unobtainum" either.

String spacing, which has been mentioned, is a non issue with Kahlers.

Best of luck with your decision.

[1fastdog]

Alot of the complaints people have about Kahlers wouldnt happen if they just used the proper strings and properly maintained the units............

I agree. Not overtightening the nut lock plates also avoids "grooving" them to where they won't clamp the strings well.

[Larz]

Did EVH invent the Kahler too?

It was good enough for Mustaine at some point....

[toejam]

The issue I have with Floyds which hasn't been mentioned is: if you palm rest your hand on the tailpiece and haven't locked the Floyd from being capable to pull the strings sharp in a trem arm techmique, you will consistantly drive the guitar sharp.

It's never been a problem for me. That's a technique issue you need to work on. You're not supposed to be that heavy-handed, no matter what bridge you're playing on.