Are the USA Select and the Custom Shop guitars made by the same people at Jackson?

[Dave Rocks]

I would bet almost anything that all bodies and necks, including CS are made via CNC. If not, it would cost 3X the price. Hand made does not mean that no machines are used in the process. I own a CNC manufacturing company and I can tell you it would make zero sense for them to hand cut the bodies and necks.

Maybe, on rare occations, special one - off bodies are cut by hand but that would be about it. I have two dinkys from 89/90 and aside from the pickup route, the bodies are the same, they even have the same flaw in the horn. In that case they may have not been CNC but surely they used a template that was the same for both.

[Newc]

Agreed about the one-offs. The War Angel. War Kelly, Death Warrior, et al would most likely have a lot of hand-work because there's no templates, and it's doubtful the templates for those models line up with each other.

But a non-custom-body shape would use an existing template.

[church2224]

Well said, however most people don't know or haven't experienced what's really out there, so they keep building on the same notion they've been exposed to, just like the same crap they see on TV...

Basic Human nature. We all try to see that what we have or what we like is the absolute best. Ford vs. Chevy, Redskins vs. Cowboys, Fender vs. Gibson, They do not make 'em like they used to vs. new stuff is still good, and Ed Roman are all perfect examples. Even the Pre vs. Post Fender Jackson buyout, imho, is just so people can feel that their older guitars are better. For me there is no real difference, good and bad guitars were made in both eras, of course Purists will not admit that...

In reality most companies make great guitars, with the occasional lemon, but whatever is made by human hands will always have problems... But most guitars are great. Hell just twenty years ago Japanese guitars were considered crap, but now we know that Jackson/Charvel Japan, ESP, and Ibanez make great guitars (Is saying Ibanez and ESP are good guitars bad lol) We just close off our minds to make ourselves feel better about ourselves...

[VitaminG]

Basic Human nature. We all try to see that what we have or what we like is the absolute best. Ford vs. Chevy, Redskins vs. Cowboys, Fender vs. Gibson, They do not make 'em like they used to vs. new stuff is still good, and Ed Roman are all perfect examples. Even the Pre vs. Post Fender Jackson buyout, imho, is just so people can feel that their older guitars are better. For me there is no real difference, good and bad guitars were made in both eras, of course Purists will not admit that...

agree, to a point. I think it's less that people believe that what they have is the best, and more that people who don't know better buy into the mystique of the older marques. People who don't even play will still tell you that Gibson or Fender are the best, and nothing roars like a Marshall stack. That's more about brand recognition than anything else.

Hell just twenty years ago Japanese guitars were considered crap,

you'll find a forum almost full of people that would disagree with that assertion. Lots of people here own old Ibanezes & Charvels from the 80s that were made in Japan. They were considered nice guitars even when they were bought new, 25-odd years ago.

Hell, I've got a couple of Korean guitars that are getting around the 20 year old mark now, and they're both good guitars too.

Those old lawsuit Strats & LPs made in Japan in the 70s are sought after guitars now too.

[wilkinsi]

I was led to believe the USA Selects are just built in the same factory.

[church2224]

agree, to a point. I think it's less that people believe that what they have is the best, and more that people who don't know better buy into the mystique of the older marques. People who don't even play will still tell you that Gibson or Fender are the best, and nothing roars like a Marshall stack. That's more about brand recognition than anything else.


you'll find a forum almost full of people that would disagree with that assertion. Lots of people here own old Ibanezes & Charvels from the 80s that were made in Japan. They were considered nice guitars even when they were bought new, 25-odd years ago.

Hell, I've got a couple of Korean guitars that are getting around the 20 year old mark now, and they're both good guitars too.

Those old lawsuit Strats & LPs made in Japan in the 70s are sought after guitars now too.

Actually what I meant was that many of these old school players thought that when these Japanese guitars were released they were of worse quality and not as good as Gibson or Fender. I am not saying they were bad guitars at all, just that some people thought they were. Of course we all know that now they are excellent guitars., as many of the Japanese guitars made from the 70s-present are phenomenal instruments. Today many think that the Japanese build better guitars than the United States builder. Whether this is true will always be up to debate, Does not matter to me really, both the US and Japan make great guitars.

[Mazrim]

For what it's worth, I have a Jackson Custom shop soloist with a 'U' serial number (it's one of the Snowblind limited run) and it's superior to any other Jackson I've played.
In fact, it's only second to a top of the range Suhr in my stable and also all the guitars I've ever played. That includes ridiculously expensive Gibsons. PRS and Fenders.

[Tedmac]

I forgot what forum it was but there was a guy who was a dealer who when the USA Charvels werent made here anymore was being recruited to sell Jackson USA's and he was invited to the Fender factory in Corona. He told the story of what it was like to be in the factory where one section was Fender and a small section of the building was Jackson. The way he explained it there are only a dozen or so people who build every USA Jackson and Custom Jackson and Charvel. He said that when Fender bought Jackson they agreed to let the Jacksons be built for the most part the way they had always been built. He said that the machines that Grover Jackson designed and built were still being used to build the current guitars. He said that there were two different rooms where the wood for the bodies were kept and that the Fender bodies were already cut but the Jackson wood room was still in 10ft planks. The way he explained it, there was alot more "hands on" work being done to build the Jacksons and Charvels.
So since its on the internet its gotta be true.

[church2224]

I forgot what forum it was but there was a guy who was a dealer who when the USA Charvels werent made here anymore was being recruited to sell Jackson USA's and he was invited to the Fender factory in Corona. He told the story of what it was like to be in the factory where one section was Fender and a small section of the building was Jackson. The way he explained it there are only a dozen or so people who build every USA Jackson and Custom Jackson and Charvel. He said that when Fender bought Jackson they agreed to let the Jacksons be built for the most part the way they had always been built. He said that the machines that Grover Jackson designed and built were still being used to build the current guitars. He said that there were two different rooms where the wood for the bodies were kept and that the Fender bodies were already cut but the Jackson wood room was still in 10ft planks. The way he explained it, there was alot more "hands on" work being done to build the Jacksons and Charvels.
So since its on the internet its gotta be true.

No this story VERY true. I heard the EXACT story from my local dealer owner in Richmond and a dealer in Christiansburg.

[RacerX]

He told the story of what it was like to be in the factory where one section was Fender and a small section of the building was Jackson. The way he explained it there are only a dozen or so people who build every USA Jackson and Custom Jackson and Charvel. He said that when Fender bought Jackson they agreed to let the Jacksons be built for the most part the way they had always been built. He said that the machines that Grover Jackson designed and built were still being used to build the current guitars. He said that there were two different rooms where the wood for the bodies were kept and that the Fender bodies were already cut but the Jackson wood room was still in 10ft planks. The way he explained it, there was alot more "hands on" work being done to build the Jacksons and Charvels.
So since its on the internet its gotta be true.

This is pretty much exactly what Richard James & I reported here after the tour we took a couple years ago.

[RacerX]

IIRC FMIC/JCMI set aside "Master Builders" such as Shannon and Pablo to do all the Custom Shop stuff around 2004/5, while "the regular shmoes" built the USA Selects.

However, as Larz said, they may have had a hand in some USA Select stuff in their down time, though I seriously doubt they've had that much downtime.

Well, this is exactly what Pablo told me personally during the factory tour. He does have downtime from, er, time to time.

I got the impression that the Charvel Master Builders were busier than the Jackson side.

[Tedmac]

Cool having verification of that story. Thanks

[emperor_black]

This is pretty much exactly what Richard James & I reported here after the tour we took a couple years ago.

yeah, I remember that. You even posted some pic right? Was it the time when there were doughnuts & lunch in the conference room and everyone taking the tour started helping themselves and then some visibly irritated woman came in and told them that the food was brought in for a later meeting?

[Newc]

[bratfink]

In the spring 2011 edition of Contactmag from Dassault Systems (makers of Catia v5 and Solid Works cad packages) there is an article on Fender and their use of Solid Works on the design and manufacture of guitars.

Glenn Dominick, Senior Manufacturing Engineer for Fender states that the 2002 aquisition of Jackson required Fender to develop 3d manufacturing methods.

"Jackson guitars are a completely different type of guitar, the geometry is complex. We can better address Jackson design challenges with 3D, particularly the neck shape, because its 15deg angle makes tooling much more difficult to produce. Since there is no efficient way to develop fixtures on those kainds of angles using 2d, we have to use a 3d tool for Jackson guitars".

The article goes on to describe a number of design and cnc processes the company has now employed acrross the line of both Fender and Jackson guitars.

Now I don't know if this is just for the Jap/Indo/Indian made guitars or even the USA built ones but if the goal is more consistent quality it would make sense to put this in place on the USA line first to ensure top quality. That would leave most custom shop work as effectively a paint booth or the addition of extra holes in different positions for pots/switches.

I have never been to the facility, but if I were running the company CNC would be used across the board and I'd run the company like a race car shop (which is what I do now). I'd use CAD to design, CAMto manufacture, and CMM to check everything. I think the paintwork would still be hand done though, it's always nice to have unique art on a guitar.