thickness of flame top?

[lynchfan6]

Anyone know approx. how thick the flame top is on a US Jackson? I've seen it referred to as a veneer, so I'm assuming pretty thin. Just decorative more than tonal, right?

[JCB RR1]

It's about 1/8" thick, I don't think it would affect the tone at a high degree but it can be difficult to know for sure as two guitars would sound quite different with the same specs and the same setup. I'm waiting for my solid color KE2, and that's the first thing I'm going to compare.

[RobRR]

Up until recently, the USA Select guitars were just a paper thin veneers. Now theyre putting 1/8" tops on the SL2MAH series at least, havent seen any good pictures of a new non-MAH to verify that.

[lynchfan6]

Up until recently, the USA Select guitars were just a paper thin veneers. Now theyre putting 1/8" tops on the SL2MAH series at least, havent seen any good pictures of a new non-MAH to verify that.

I was thinking the tops looked paper thin. I was viewing some photos of the edges of flametop KE-2, how it tapers, and also a slightly knicked up flametop SL1, where you could see bare wood on the edges. In both cases, the veneer was appearing as 1mm or less.

[euronymous]

The flame for Alder body seems to be the veneer. However, AFAIK, the flame top for Mah body is real maple with 1/8' thickness

[Hellbat]

My RR1T is a thin veneer. But it's killer flame regardless. I wouldn't call it paper thin, but I would say around 1mm in thickness would be close. It's definitely thick enough to have some dimensionality to the flame when the lighting angle changes.

[shreddermon]

About 1/16th" or so on USA most Select guitars. 1/8th" on PC1s and SL2H-MAHs. Remember, the quilt/flame tops are essentially "squished" onto the top of the guitar body, shaped to its contours. It's kind of like a shrink-wrapping process. So what you see at the very edges of the body is typically a bit thinner than the top's actual size. And even 1/16th will have an impact on tone, although much more pronounced with 1/8th.

Full-on custom shop guitars will have either 1/8th" or 3/4", depending on what the customer specs. 3/4" is pretty much exclusively used for archtops. That thickness makes for way too bright of a tone on flat-top guitars.

[JCB RR1]

The maple on my KE2 is 1/8" thick.

I agree with shreddermon...3/4" maple would be more than half of the body.

[euronymous]

AFAIK, 3/4 top will not affect the sound that much and it sounds just a little bit brighter than 1/8. If i remeber right you can find those information from TGP or Suhr forum. The backwood thickness of jackson with 3/4' top is still thicker than Ibanez S series. Besides, the SE ESP DV8 has those thick top, i dont think they sounds bright at all.

[sully]

Just out of curiosity, how much does the thickness actually matter to you, and why? I'm totally not trying to be rude; I usually use 1/4" tops on my guitars, but I'm wondering why a perceived veneer is potentially looked down upon. I'd think that it's the pattern that matters.

Sully

[len]

i was under the impression that in order to be sold as a "top" it has to be a certain thickness and if its under that particular specification it has to be sold as veneer
i guess after veneer there is the proverbial ~decal~

[Trem]

i was under the impression that in order to be sold as a "top" it has to be a certain thickness and if its under that particular specification it has to be sold as veneer
i guess after veneer there is the proverbial ~decal~

Yeah you would figure. I guess it comes down to what the buyer is expecting. If it says maple top and they think it means a chunk of wood and it's wallpaper, then they aren't getting what they want.

Sully, i guess a question could be, why do you use a 1/4 maple top instead of just a veneer? Is it a sound thing, or just easier for you in your situation or you just hadn't gotten around to trying veneer?

Ever since gibson researched woods for the les paul and from what i've read they tried a lot of things and came to the conclusion that a maple top over mahogany suited the sound they were looking for best. So it has been the perception of the industry or buyer that it does indeed affect the sound of the guitar. Unless someone doesn't believe that or there is evidence to the contrary and someone chooses to believe that instead i would imagine a veneer would be pointless to them, unless all the cared about was looks. I personally would choose at least 8th and probably preferably a quarter inch maple/or hard ash top over the base wood if i was to choose such a build or otherwise wouldn't bother, because as far as looks, it would end up being a solid color guitar probably anyway, most likely black, lol, cause that's what i like. I'd only do it for a chance to alter the tonality of the base wood, the flavor, like a recipe. If i wanted a cool looking grain pattern but hopefully not alter or have less of a chance to alter the tonality of the base wood, then i guess i might try a veneer.

I had been thinking, and looking about for anyone who has tried a sort of sandwich type body. Like maple top and back with mahogany center, or basswood or similar idea. Just out of curiosity. Haven't found a single example of that - maybe for good reason who knows, lol. But like suhr seems to like maple over basswood, i personally have never cared for basswood. But i haven't played a suhr. But i was just thinking i wonder what a maple, basswood or mohagany, maple sandwich body might sound like, just out of random curiosity.

[sully]

Sully, i guess a question could be, why do you use a 1/4 maple top instead of just a veneer? Is it a sound thing, or just easier for you in your situation or you just hadn't gotten around to trying veneer?

In general, cost. Although it's easier to put a 1/4 top (or maybe 1/8) on to a body for me; a thin veneer (and I mean thin) seems to require more work than a thicker top might. A thicker top has more structural strength (not sure if that's the best term) than a veneer does. Seems like you can have waves in veneer, and that's more of a pain in the ass than I care to deal with.

I don't put a whole ton of stock into Gibson's "research" though. You can have a 1/2 - 3/4" maple top on a mahogany body and you're not going to guarantee a great sounding guitar. I'm of the opinion that wood type has little to do with the tone of an electric guitar. Most of your tone comes from the electronics. For example, two guitars with EMGs in them will most likely sound the same. Although, an electric guitar that sounds lively while played acoustically will often sound better than one that doesn't. You can have a AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA figured top on high grade mahogany and have it be the deadest sounding guitar ever. The stiffness or rigidity of the wood is more important than the type of wood. As always, YMMV.

Sully

[Trem]

I agree with the wood being a crap shoot. Still it is consistent enough for people to desire a certain wood type over another. My ibanez sounds ok through amplification and pretty dead acoustically. As far as the sound of body woods acoustically or plugged in, i tend to play unplugged most of the time, and in that i have gravitated to a stronger fundamental tone of a guitar with less airy resonance. But even plugged in with different types of guitars, maple neck through mahogany compared to bolt on maple onto basswood when plugged in there is a difference in at least perceived tone by way of the guitar sort of being an extension of you. For example just the way it vibrates in your hand adds to the subtlety of tone by way of feel. It feels more powerful and like your swinging a heavy branch compared to a twig or something. If that makes sense.

To me a super light guitar, like a basswood ibanez doesn't have the vibration in your hand when you hit a chord, it feels like sonically the sound is coming from the amp but is disconnected to the instrument - i guess it depends on how sensitive someone is to that kind of thing. The difference to me of that and a maple neck through mahogany where the vibration felt deep in my hand and against my body, it feels like there is more of a connect between the guitar in your hand, the striking of the strings and the sound coming out of the amp making it feel like the difference of actually driving a sports car compared to playing a video game of you driving a sports car.
For lack of a better analogy i guess.