Robbin Crosby's Double Rhoads/King V question

[RacerX]

No, not Indonesia.

[Devotee]

I own what used to be a KX10 that was made in Indonesia. It's one of those infamous ones that you see once in a while with the oval control cavity, metallic red finish and no-name JT500 trem. Weren't they made for The Music Zoo in 2001 or something? Anyhow other than that, only the Scott Ian Soloist is made in China and fuck knows why...

Either way, i hope Jackson are smart enough to find a new factory to fill in the gap between the X Series and USA Select. What they're going to fill it with is another matter altogether since offering highly affordable neck-throughs has finally become possible by manufacturing in India, but obviously can't hold a candle to the MIJ stuff.

QC has been consistent since the buyout. Custom orders have become stupid. Wait time and prices are stupid. Jackson as a brand name is further diluted... all you usually see anywhere are crap models, half the time they're used and beat up. The prestige of both the Charvel and Jackson brands is far worse off. No new innovation... a few different body shapes and models, but no real technological improvements. They're in the god damned Fender building for christ's sake. They're like the bastard stepchild of a multinational corporation now.

With Fender as owner now, they should basically force Guitar Center to stock USAs and at least a few Customs at each store... they don't.

I half-expect to see Jackson Starter Packages with a cheap guitar, picks and an amp in a box at Costco for $179 or something...

Charvel/Jackson is trying to get back in the game by offering feature-packed instruments at cheap prices so that younger players can afford them and let's face it, the Desolation Series and X Series pack some seriously great features for the price, regardless of where they're made. It makes better sense to build brand awareness by offering these kind of instruments (especially considering the current economic climate) rather than pushing $2000+ USA models in every corner of the Earth when they'll probably end up gathering dust. If they had opened the Japanese factory for custom orders like xenophobe suggests, imagine how much business that would have taken away from the USA custom shop.

I've said this in other threads as well, Jackson really needs to wake up; other brands have been offering decent production 7-strings for aaages and only now have they decided to do the same (discounting the SLAT3-7 which was a flop and the older DR7, RR7, etc. which are rare as hens' teeth nowadays anyway). Nowadays, 8-strings and even 9-strings are becoming standard issue as well and Jackson only did their first Custom Shop 8-string last year... It would be nice to see them mix things up a little by doing 'themed' limited runs like Gibson did with the Voodoo, Gothic, Menace, etc. series. They did something similar with the Elite series which was quite successful.

This whole Custom Shop wait time business is completely out of hand though. I'm sure there's plenty of people who are ready and willing to fork out $3000+ for a CS Jackson but find that waiting two years for it to materialise is completely unacceptable. Once again, especially when you consider you can order a Carvin to your specs for half the price and it'll be delivered in two months... Now that Jackson is owned by FMIC and has the resources to make things happen, there are no excuses.

[Devotee]

As for innovation, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Jacksons have their own identity - they're known for being sleek, pointy and for having compound fretboards. Nowadays what constitutes technological innovation are guitars that tune themselves, Strats that can also sound like Les Pauls, acoustics and sitars and even these are very niche products; guitarists are fickle bastards who just like to plug in to an amp and play. I think the most practical (and therefore the best) innovation i've seen the past few years is the Ibanez Edge Zero tremolo, that is an extremely well-designed and engineered bridge that takes the concept Floyd Rose to the next level.

I'm not saying Jackson should be doing similar kind of things, far from it, they should keep it simple. Program a CNC machine and do a limited series of Death Kellys or Extreme Warriors with crazy features. Do a run of baritones or shorter scale guitars... Do something interesting!

[xenophobe]

Charvel/Jackson is trying to get back in the game by offering feature-packed instruments at cheap prices so that younger players can afford them and let's face it, the Desolation Series and X Series pack some seriously great features for the price, regardless of where they're made. It makes better sense to build brand awareness by offering these kind of instruments (especially considering the current economic climate) rather than pushing $2000+ USA models in every corner of the Earth when they'll probably end up gathering dust. If they had opened the Japanese factory for custom orders like xenophobe suggests, imagine how much business that would have taken away from the USA custom shop.

I've said this in other threads as well, Jackson really needs to wake up; other brands have been offering decent production 7-strings for aaages and only now have they decided to do the same (discounting the SLAT3-7 which was a flop and the older DR7, RR7, etc. which are rare as hens' teeth nowadays anyway). Nowadays, 8-strings and even 9-strings are becoming standard issue as well and Jackson only did their first Custom Shop 8-string last year... It would be nice to see them mix things up a little by doing 'themed' limited runs like Gibson did with the Voodoo, Gothic, Menace, etc. series. They did something similar with the Elite series which was quite successful.

The dilution of the brand continues.

And as I've said, Fender owns Jackson and Charvel now. Can you go into a Guitar Center and find a selection of their bargain basement guitars? No. Can you find high end Jacksons at Guitar Center? No. You'll see 20 or 30 Fenders in the $1000+ range though. Same with Gibson. Even Ibanez and ESP has more mid-range and high end guitars at GC, or any other independent music shop. There is no presence, and when there is it's usually their crappiest models.

It's great they're making more mid level and entry level guitars, but there's no distinction between a $5000 custom and a $300 import, and you know why? Because even at most music stores Jackson is the junk brand with a bunch of used and beat up imports with little to no USA support at music retailers.

As I've said before, ESP has LTD, Gibson has Epiphone, Fender has Squirer... and most of the brands that don't have any distinction between their high end models and their starter guitars are in the shitter too. What's the distinction between a $300 Jackson and a $5000 one? Well, if you get up and look really closely you may or may not see "made in USA".

And the US custom shop issues are bullshit. Instead of brutally running their Japanese factory into the ground and into bankruptcy leaving them without any orders or contracts so they had no other choice but to close, they should have opened up their manufacturing and allowed them to make US market customs. Of course, they didn't and let that ship sink.

So they still like making customs for NAMM. I really don't give a fuck and they're sloppy as hell. The reason they're currently backed up at 2 years to delivery is because they make so many fucking mistakes that they have to fix to Fender's higher QC that they're in the weeds with no sign of relief in sight.

Sorry, Fender has horribly mis-managed the Jackson/Charvel assets and the name brand, and while QC has made definite strides in improvement, everything else has faltered.

As for innovation, there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Read your second paragraph that I quoted. Kinda contradicting yourself there. :P

I guess Ford would still be in business if their main product was still the Model T.

[Devotee]

What does Fender have to do with what Guitar Center or any other guitar store chooses to have in stock? These stores buy guitars from companies in order to sell. If they don't have any Jacksons in stock, it probably means they don't sell. What do Fender, Gibson, Ibanez and ESP have that Jackson doesn't have? A bigger market share. Why is that? Because they're smart companies who know how to market and sell their shit and therefore create a bigger demand for them. Charvel/Jackson should be engaging in aggressive marketing to bring them back into the spotlight. They're trying, by endorsing Chris Broderick, Dave Ellefson, Scott Ian, etc. and by doing import signatures such as the ATL Soloist, Adrian Smith San Dimas and Mille Petrozza King V but i personally think they're not being aggressive enough about it. Prime example: that import Mille Petrozza signature KV dropped and no one had any idea about it. The way you word your post makes it seem as though you think FMIC doesn't want Jackson to be successful, and is therefore 'sabotaging' the Jackson name. That doesn't make any sense at all.

There's no distinction between a $5000 custom and $300 import? Only if you're a 12 year-old kid just starting out who doesn't know shit about guitars to begin with. I don't see BC Rich, Ibanez, Schecter or Dean in the shitter even though they don't have 'distinction' between their higher and lower end models. I think all this Squire/Fender, Epiphone/Gibson etc. stuff is all bullshit and is actually worse for guitar manufacturers' brand solidarity because it may even suggest that they themselves don't have faith in their own product. It's how you market all of your guitars to begin with that matters. If you want to keep the distinction between your higher end models and lower ones without sacrificing brand solidarity then you can name them accordingly. Ibanez has the Prestige/Gio, BC Rich has the Handcrafted/Bronze or whatever and so on. I don't know how things are in the US but over here in Europe, Jacksons are notorious for being killer, sleek and vicious Metal guitars - regardless of the price range. The entire underground extreme Metal phenomenon was built with BC Riches and Jacksons in the first place.

Could you imagine if there was a Japanese Custom Shop as well as a USA Custom Shop? I guarantee you the Japanese CS would build guitars three times as fast as the US one and be able to offer them at better prices as well. So where would that leave Mike, Pablo and company? There used to be a Jackson Stars Custom Shop, but what happened to that one?

Mixing things up a little and innovation are hardly the same thing.

[toejam]

No, not Indonesia.

There were some Jacksons made in Indonesia at some point. Remember the Dinky someone had here years ago that actually had a sharkfin inlay at the 24th fret... there was a Made In Indonesia sticker on the back of the neck.

[sully]

[xenophobe]

What does Fender have to do with what Guitar Center or any other guitar store chooses to have in stock? These stores buy guitars from companies in order to sell. If they don't have any Jacksons in stock, it probably means they don't sell. What do Fender, Gibson, Ibanez and ESP have that Jackson doesn't have? A bigger market share. Why is that? Because they're smart companies who know how to market and sell their shit and therefore create a bigger demand for them. Charvel/Jackson should be engaging in aggressive marketing to bring them back into the spotlight. They're trying, by endorsing Chris Broderick, Dave Ellefson, Scott Ian, etc. and by doing import signatures such as the ATL Soloist, Adrian Smith San Dimas and Mille Petrozza King V but i personally think they're not being aggressive enough about it. Prime example: that import Mille Petrozza signature KV dropped and no one had any idea about it. The way you word your post makes it seem as though you think FMIC doesn't want Jackson to be successful, and is therefore 'sabotaging' the Jackson name. That doesn't make any sense at all.

Before Fender bought Jackson, there were more Jacksons in stock everywhere. Is that a sign of the times? Sure, the economy sucks. Every other brand gets prominent display, except Jackson.

I never stated FMIC deliberately sabotaged Jackson. I did say they horribly mismanaged the brand and their assets and I gave you legitimate reasons supporting that statement. Feel free to ignore it. I thought I outlined that fairly well.

There's no distinction between a $5000 custom and $300 import? Only if you're a 12 year-old kid just starting out who doesn't know shit about guitars to begin with.

Yeah and all those 12 year olds will not see any Jacksons in the store to try and if they do they're all cheap guitars unlike the ones we aspired to buy but could never afford.... Not everyone is a guitar expert on a guitar forum. That's what you just don't get. Most people just use the guitar as a tool and believe what the salesman say. Like 99% of the guitar playing majority don't sit on forums and discuss guitars. Show your neighbor two brand new guitars, a USA Adrian Smith and then import. What's the difference? Well, you'll certainly be able to dissect every little difference, but what about that random fan showing up at your concert? Nope.

I don't see BC Rich, Ibanez, Schecter or Dean in the shitter even though they don't have 'distinction' between their higher and lower end models. I think all this Squire/Fender, Epiphone/Gibson etc. stuff is all bullshit and is actually worse for guitar manufacturers' brand solidarity because it may even suggest that they themselves don't have faith in their own product. It's how you market all of your guitars to begin with that matters. If you want to keep the distinction between your higher end models and lower ones without sacrificing brand solidarity then you can name them accordingly. Ibanez has the Prestige/Gio, BC Rich has the Handcrafted/Bronze or whatever and so on. I don't know how things are in the US but over here in Europe, Jacksons are notorious for being killer, sleek and vicious Metal guitars - regardless of the price range. The entire underground extreme Metal phenomenon was built with BC Riches and Jacksons in the first place.

BC Rich and Dean are both in the retail outlet doghouse here. But Dean does have a slightly better presence than BC Rich, which has a much better presence compared to Jackson. Fender, Gibson and Ibanez are like the 3 big dogs here now, well, have been for quite some time now actually. ESP is still niche market compared to them. Both ESP and Dean get the back wall corner. Sometimes Jackson is there with them, usually not though.

Could you imagine if there was a Japanese Custom Shop as well as a USA Custom Shop? I guarantee you the Japanese CS would build guitars three times as fast as the US one and be able to offer them at better prices as well. So where would that leave Mike, Pablo and company? There used to be a Jackson Stars Custom Shop, but what happened to that one?

Dude, if you live in Japan and want an ESP... you know what you do? You go into one of their stores, sit down with an actual builder and order exactly what you want. You can even select your wood on the spot. They have 3 standard custom shops, Craft House and Technical House. ESP can manage 5 different custom shops and Jackson has trouble running 1. lol seriously?

And yay for Mike and Pablo... they're overworked and maybe 1 of Pablo's body styles is worth a damn. Yeah, I know he and Mike make excellent guitars, but they both royally screwed up on two of my custom orders ignoring both of the work orders. Time to hire more talent. Especially when it takes 2 years and sometimes a lot of harassment to get a damn guitar out.

Hey, I absolutely love Jackson. Fender has horribly mismanaged the brand ever since it bought them. Fender is a typical multinational corporation that really is only interested in making money, not caring about wait times, the degradation of the brand name and the lack of website updates just shows you what the real deal is... a brand they don't exactly know what to do with.

[Hellbat]

Maybe that's the case in your town Xeno, but where I am, back in the heyday only one small shop carried Jackson at all. Now both major chains carry the brand, but do lack in the USA model stock levels.

But it's a far more 'purchaseable' brand than in was in the 1980s.

[xenophobe]

Maybe that's the case in your town Xeno, but where I am, back in the heyday only one small shop carried Jackson at all. Now both major chains carry the brand, but do lack in the USA model stock levels.

But it's a far more 'purchaseable' brand than in was in the 1980s.

All of the local stores carried Jackson USA or BC Rich USA when I was a little kid... then Charvel started producing MIJ guitars, and then I could afford one. Now that I'm an adult I want my custom Jacksons... now that's just a nightmare. I guess I'm just an old custom shop snob.