Jackson CS vs...

[xenophobe]

I'll tell you what guys ESP is a great brand all those big artists use their models ,but I would prefer Jackson or Charvel cause they have their unique character when it come to guitars.ESP is copying other brands and I'm not talking about the les paul or the strat that were copied by everyone ,but they have copied the star(charvel) and the RR which is a landmark of Jackson as the RR was the first one to carry the Jackson logo.....also they have copied the explorer and the sg(they belong to Gibson!!!!), with george lynch they copied charvel and with hanneman they almost copied the jackson soloist.Not to mention the headstock!!!!Look at BC Rich or Dean .They are great cause they have their unique and different style and some guitar bodies you can tell from miles away.....it's just this magic that ESP is missing(well if I ever had the money I would buy a Ran guitars copy of a body shape....I'm just against the mass production of guitar copies it's like they don't respect the uniqueness of other brands and they take advantage of the genius people who created them).

That's funny that you would say that. Both Charvel and ESP were founded by making replacement strat parts. Jackson has copied Gibson too. Dean? lol. You do know that Mustaine's Dean is an almost identical copy to his Jacksons, right? When Dean asked Mustaine what he wanted, he actually handed them one of his KVs and said "I want that". Jackson has copied Les Pauls, Explorers, Telecasters, and it's pretty obvious that the Warrior, a truly great and unique design, had to be at least partially inspired by the Stealth which predates it by quite a few years.

The only reason Jackson is what they are today is because they made copies of other people's guitars and made them as good or better. But wait, even Gibson and Fender tried copying a pointy headstock and soloist type bodies.

Time to take off the rosy colored glasses, son and look at the bigger picture.

[vampire dark]

Yeah man I can see your point but I gotta tell you that I hate Dean guitars the way they have become now.....(they have a really bad headstock thats why and the last years that I have been watching them they do not seem to get great axes,but no problem we know that if you want something good there is the custom shop).

Mustaine must be the only man who copied Jackson with Dean and also we do not know the exact reason he left Jackson.Jackson has copied explorers but they gave them a different character with pointy endings wich is a lot different than having an exact copy of the explorer body from Gibson(ESP did it with Hetfield).

And you can throw me the question about Dean and Jackson copying the V's of Gibson.Well they did, but look at Dean these guys put their headstock on and gave a different feeling, the same did with the explorer and their les paul is the cadillac a completely different thing from what Gibson does.Jackson maybe copied the V,I can't say with certainty that this was their intention because I have in my mind ,that the idea came from a custom shop guitar of Dave Linsk who wanted a double rhoads (and they have their own headstock also at Jackson).

ESP copied the V in two versions.The one looks like theKing V(look at that V-II) and the other I've seen Kirk Hammett playing it and it looks like Gibson's V ,but that must be a custom shop order ,so you can also not count this(it's a red one I think) .

My point is that ESP has never tried to do something different and create a guitar body or a headstock that is going to be widely known to the guitarist community(this is what makes a brand of guitars succesful).So whenever we see that brand we can go like"oh here are some guitars with attitude, not another copy of Jackson Gibson ".......you name it.For me this is what ESP lacks ...And Dean has only Dave Mustaine who copied another brand ....ESP's every single artist owns a copy of another brand.Its just that with Jackson you will get the originality that has allways been there. Also I'm not here to say whats right and whats wrong(who knows I may one day really like playing an ESP).
Thats how I see things....
Question:When did Jackson copy the les paul ,is it like the desolation charvels show me some pics, haven't seen that yet and it must be ugly

[xenophobe]

The Desolation is a copy of the LP, a crappy one, but it's still a copy. Vivian Campbell's Jackson LP. I also forgot to mention the Firebird, Jackson copied that too. They also copied the Flying V and made a roundhorn.

And I'm not really disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that Charvel and Jackson are just as guilty, well except that since Fender purchased them, all the insiders who were able to have lawsuit guitars made under the table got cut off.

You might like to think Jackson is more original. Do you know that the only reason Jackson came into existence is he didn't want to put the Charvel name on Randy's guitar? He didn't want to pollute the Charvel brand name. And it was Randy who designed the Concorde, Grover is just the person who had it made it for him.

Do you know what the most valuable Jacksons are? Their copies. When is the last time you saw a factory Jackson Explorer, Star or Firebird come up for sale? You likely never will. Those are bought and sold behind the scenes, much like SD Charvels. When you do see them, they're usually fucked up or parts pieces in horrible shape. That's because nobody behind the scenes wanted them.

And, go look at that ESP link I showed you. Is Jackson capable of much of that? Maybe. Have they ever? Not really.

And it does kind of kill me that I have to go to ESP to order a freaking strathead because Fender won't allow Jackson to make anything but the PC1 or Adrian Smith....

[vampire dark]

yes I've already seen the link and these guitars are a proof of the craftsmanship of professional people.I think that Grover Jackson said that he ain't put the charvel logo on the RR because it wouldn't look that beautiful and years later its proved that the Jackson is a lot more nice on the headstock.I believe that if one ever wants to challenge Jackson about building such guitars they will have no problem, especially when the factor of money occurs.But these guitars aren't to be played they are to be hanged on the wall for decoration.You also mentioned that the most valuable Jackons are these copies ,and I believe you because I've seen them and whenever I went like "when did jackson build this staff".Do they charge these guitars a lot more than the custom shop or they are at the same prices?

[Devotee]

I think the main issues with the Jackson Custom Shop is the wait time, communication and QC. I've never owned a Custom Shop in my life so i can only relay information that i've gleaned from other sources (mainly this forum) and the conclusions that i've come to from what i've read are somewhat alarming. Firstly, a near two year wait time for a guitar is unacceptable, no matter how outrageously spec'ed out it is or whatever other business Jackson has going on. Carvin can turn around customs in nine weeks and plenty of other smaller guitar makers can turn around guitars in a matter of months. It should be relatively quick for Jackson to churn out a Kelly with a reverse headstock and abalone inlays without any significant upcharge if Carvin can do similar work in a matter of weeks and at a more reasonable price.

As for smaller companies and individual luthiers, a buddy of mine ordered a custom Grosmann RR-inspired guitar in February and spec'ed out every detail from top to bottom himself. The luthier designed a completely new body shape and headstock for him and did custom inlay work as well... It's being shipped now, five months later. As for Jackson's apparently hit and miss communication and QC, one only has to read the horror stories that are some of AK47's threads, especially the notorious white KV that had to be rebuilt three times before the CS got it right...

I dunno, i still want to order a custom Death Kelly at some point though.

[xenophobe]

Yeah, I've had two CS guitars go horribly wrong as well, though I never heard about the KV that needed to be built three times. That's just ridiculous. I still want to order another custom Jackson. I just don't want to wait 2 years. By the time the guitar arrives, I'm already a year into thinking what I want next.

yes I've already seen the link and these guitars are a proof of the craftsmanship of professional people.I think that Grover Jackson said that he ain't put the charvel logo on the RR because it wouldn't look that beautiful and years later its proved that the Jackson is a lot more nice on the headstock.I believe that if one ever wants to challenge Jackson about building such guitars they will have no problem, especially when the factor of money occurs.But these guitars aren't to be played they are to be hanged on the wall for decoration.You also mentioned that the most valuable Jackons are these copies ,and I believe you because I've seen them and whenever I went like "when did jackson build this staff".Do they charge these guitars a lot more than the custom shop or they are at the same prices?

Jackson won't build a lot of designs since Fender bought them. Before that, some stuff was made under the table for a few die-hard collectors. My Jackson Strathead, for example, is an 89. Back in '89 if you tried to order one they'd laugh at you and tell you to get lost. But, they made it. There were some others built during 86 to the mid 90's... and a few people even managed to get an Explorer, a Firebird, a couple of Stars done all through back-channels before they were purchased by FMIC. Of course you couldn't order them through dealers, but they were still made. Price? I have no idea on what backdoor and "employee project" guitars actually sold for but as a typical Jackson fan, most of us wouldn't have the connections to get one built, though if I remember correctly, it would cost you more to get it on the log books for whatever reason.

And to talk about custom shop price gouging, how about them EVH Art Series, or the Anniversary Charvels... or... LTD Rhoads, or whatever else. There are a number of custom Jacksons that have fallen in the $5k+ range. Sure if you get an ESP Tech House guitar built, it'll probably cost you close to $10k but that's in another league of it's own... no pin routers, no templates, bodies are shaped and hand sanded, but that's their answer to Fender Master Built which can easily run up the same kind of cash...

My friend visited the Jackson shop about a week ago. They offered him to come pick up his guitar because it took nearly 26 months to be completed. Fender ships Master Built guitars faster than Jackson ships customs. He asked why that side was so busy and the Jackson shop looked like it was running slow and they didn't really have an acceptable answer for him. The reason he was told that it takes so long is that the CS guys are always busy fixing mistakes that should never have happened. He said the guys were cool, but he was pretty much disgusted with how he was treated overall and how long it took to get his guitar. I can't blame him. And it's not just him...

[vampire dark]

guys maybe we should do something as a forum to make a big complain about the wait time and who knows what's going to happen(don't know if you've ever tried this before).we could also try and do it at the jackson guitars site forum...

[xenophobe]

guys maybe we should do something as a forum to make a big complain about the wait time and who knows what's going to happen(don't know if you've ever tried this before).we could also try and do it at the jackson guitars site forum...

I think they're too busy making more $25,000 EVH Charvels to care....

[vampire dark]

maybe one day they should hear everyones complains and understand the gravity of the issue

[wilkinsi]

I don't care who copies who. The world is built on plagarism. What matters to me is I like my guitars for how they look, feel and sound. And IMO, Jackson wins in all 3 aspects.

[veemagic]

I don't care who copies who. The world is built on plagarism. What matters to me is I like my guitars for how they look, feel and sound. And IMO, Jackson wins in all 3 aspects.

Thats the spirit!

[Dog Boy]

I'll always love Jackson but I do check out other Custom Shops. That Horizon III is awesome and GMP is kicking all kinds of ass these days. Hey, its great to be alive and have choices...

[Whoopu2]

IMHO the ESP customs on that page are just ridiculous.

[xenophobe]

One thing that really sucks about Jackson... they haven't made any improvements in build quality or improvements in technology for a while, they've been standing still. I guess to some that's good, but Jackson also doesn't have a good guide on the CS options they have or will do, and quite frankly, ESP smokes Jackson in terms of build options and since I want a strathead, I'm far better off with ESP with my custom build.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.espguitars.co.jp/ordermade/neck.html

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.espguitars.co.jp/ordermade/colorsumple.html

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.espguitars.co.jp/ordermade/body.html

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.espguitars.co.jp%2Fparts%2Fcustomlab%2Findex.html

[neilli]

I'll always love Jackson but I do check out other Custom Shops. Hey, its great to be alive and have choices...

Yeah, I'm pretty much the same - I have a GMP and an Anderson on order. I have a custom PC1 virtually finished which will have been around 14 months I think. I would have ordered another Jackson by now if they weren't quoting 18 - 24 months. That's just not acceptable, especially when most orders seem to take longer than estimated...