Just how much are we getting ripped off in the UK?

[ginsambo]

In a nutshell, the problem is tax and the escalating affect it has on overall price because of a standard profit margin.

Cost of guitar in USA. EG Small Dealer cost including shipping: £1920

Add import VAT at 20% excluding Duty + customs handling charges: £2304

Add 20% Markup: £2765

Or is they are VAT registered, which they will be they won't have to pay the VAT on the import, just the Duty, but they will charge 20% Vat on the final price including margins which equate to the same.

[1994]

As a fellow UK-er I feel your pain.

I'm showing my age here, but the last time USA Jacksons were affordable in the UK was about 15 years ago. The distributor at the time (I think it was Akai) was marketing Jackson very hard and dealers were stocking the USA models in volume. This made the pricing competitive (not cheap exactly, but a USA model was a only a bit more than top-end Ibanez RG and comparable to a Les Paul standard for example). There was also a decent second-hand market with good volume available. It was pretty easy to demo a USA dinky, soloist or kelly. To try one now you will have to travel to find someone who is selling one via gumtree or ebay.

What changed? Well for my two penneth PRS hit the USA Jacksons hard over here during the nu-metal era. A PRS, while not exactly a metal guitar became an option for those who wanted a big sound but a non-pointy guitar. This coincided with Jackson being sold and Fender not pushing the USA models so much. ESP guitars also became much more popular.

I have not seen a USA Jackson on the wall of a store for many years. The dealers certainly won't buy in bulk so discounts are out of the window. They are reluctant to buy them as they are a hard sell at current prices and do not want to be stuck with a guitar that (sadly) might sit on the wall for over a year. This means that a new generation of players are not getting exposure to these great instruments and older players are looking are brands like Suhr.

Not sure if the shortage of USA Jacksons in the UK is due to changing tastes, price or poor marketing, but it is a real shame that they are becoming more and more unaccessible.

[ginsambo]

I think that is it in a nutshell. If you are a tradesman or like shopping you'll know that since 2008 no one is keeping anything on the shelf and stocked lines are really low. No one wants the risk of stock that won't sell and the banks stopped giving out short term cash flow, extended overdrafts and loans in 2008, even if your order book are full, your business plan is great and your track record is AAAA. Better to buy ten guitars in that are cheap and will shift.

But I never remember a time when USA Jackson's were affordable. Even back in the late '80's/early 90's. I remember getting the catalogues in '92 intending to get my first 'Pro' guitar. Pro Ibanez were a damn sight cheaper than Jackson USA's but even they were expensive. As I remember, even then in small shops they were more genuine Gibson Les Paul Standards and Studios than anything even remotely resembling a Jackson.

[Nightbat]

Not sure if the shortage of USA Jacksons in the UK is due to changing tastes, price or poor marketing, but it is a real shame that they are becoming more and more unaccessible.

I guess it's the combination of all, adding the GEC, times are tough for trying to gouge out the customers with inflated prices

[1b4n3z]

Wow that price in Sweden :think:

Here across the gulf in Finland it seems Select Jacksons go for ~ $2900, but the selection is very small. I actually have never even seen a US Jackson in a store. But that's just the importer policy. Small country, only one importer, who doesn't really give a shit one way or the other. The nearest Jackson service is Fender Scandinavia, in Sweden...

[Rsmacker]

In a nutshell, the problem is tax and the escalating affect it has on overall price because of a standard profit margin.

Cost of guitar in USA. EG Small Dealer cost including shipping: £1920

Add import VAT at 20% excluding Duty + customs handling charges: £2304

Add 20% Markup: £2765

Or is they are VAT registered, which they will be they won't have to pay the VAT on the import, just the Duty, but they will charge 20% Vat on the final price including margins which equate to the same.

They DO pay VAT on the import, and it's added AFTER the import duty and anything like fuel duty due. Although a VAT registered business can claim that back, they've still got to pay the VAT man 20% of what they flog the guitar for.
Also, the dealer gets around a 25% (perhaps up to 35 or even 40% for BIG box shifters) discount from the LIST price of the guitar, set by the manufacturer. That is not the same as getting a guitar for X pounds and sticking a profit margin on top!
In real terms, he could be trying to flog a guitar for, say a grand, which has cost him 990 quid, and STILL be seen as over-priced. Not many dealers can afford to have stock like that sitting on the wall, especially when you, me and every man here doesn't walk into a guitar shop, see a guitar, like it and can afford it and buys it. We ALL hit Google and see who's doing a better price. Great if you are looking for someone who needs to cut their own throat to survive, not so great for a sustained economic model ie. lots of guitars in shops, nationwide. Would you fancy hitting the bank up for a business loan to get a load of guitars, of ANY make, to fill the walls of your shop? Not me, not any sane person!

I have not seen a USA Jackson on the wall of a store for many years. The dealers certainly won't buy in bulk so discounts are out of the window. They are reluctant to buy them as they are a hard sell at current prices and do not want to be stuck with a guitar that (sadly) might sit on the wall for over a year. This means that a new generation of players are not getting exposure to these great instruments and older players are looking are brands like Suhr.

IIRC Fender used to be absolute tyrants if you were a "Rock 'n' Roll Dealer" (ie. you had all the good stuff). There was a minimum stocking committment, and you had to order a certain amount of stuff per annum too. Not much good in these times where you might be shifting a lot of fuck-all. And if you were caught trans-shipping (ie. your mate in a shop oop North wants a couple of items, so you do him a discount, let him have a bit of variety on his wall, and help your stocking thru-put figures to boot), they would nail your nuts to the wall and remove your top dealer status. Marshall were even worse, they came round and killed your first-born - they sent reps to shops who weren't their dealers to see who had their stuff in stock. If so, serial numbers were taken and the original dealer was dealt with severely.
I don't know if it's the same these days, with all the brands they own, but I imagine so.

Mind you, it never stopped me getting my hands on any Marshall or Fender stuff for my customers. The difference today would be that by the time I got it in for someone, added just a token drink for my trouble, it is more expensive than Joe Customer getting it with two clicks from the big dealer's website. Result - I gave up selling just about everything, even consumables like strings, people just don't nip down to their mate in town for a natter and to get a packet of strings any more (and by extension, make an impulse purchase of a new guitar). Luckily, my business wasn't based solely upon retail sales of musical intruments and accessories, so it was no great shakes for me to adapt. Others, big companies, have been fucked by the change in the way we shop nowadays.

[Mazrim]

The way I see it, and I'm always moving Jacksons and such about over here, there are relative bargains to be had and there isnt much US stuff moving around right now so sellers can ask what they like but rule of thumb is (for mint or vgc mind you) Soloists about £900-£1000 (more demand), Kellys about £800-£900, KVs and DK1s about the same. Warriors are harder to gauge as they hardly come up but figure about the same as soloists but for a much narrower appeal. Rare stuff and customs can vary wildly depending on what it is and who wants it at the time but thats been my experience lately.

Sorry man, I know its not good news. Its a shitty time to ask cash for guitars and compared to what these things are new (if you can find them), it sucks.
But thats what people are paying, if that.
A soloist Pro only hit £350 on ebay recently and a year or three ago they were hitting nearly twice that. Its not a sellers market.

And unfortunately, yes, it is cheaper to get good deals in the US and bring em over here. Usually.
There is somnething else that can help keep charges down importing guitars over here but I wont speak of it on the main forum.

[Rsmacker]

Oh really? PM me please! (Not that I've found a single guitar here worth blowing my goo over...)