San Dimas Jacksons - What will be most collectible?

[shreddermon]

So I was recently considering picking up a San Dimas Rhoads. Something on the cheap, I was thinking. So I saw this student model RR on Fleabay, and started watching it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1985-JACKSON-CHARVEL-RANDY-RHOADS-MODEL-SAN-DIMAS-RR-WHITE-/261106908002?pt=Guitar&hash=item3ccb2f3b62&nma=true&si=qNN4Qun3H14vTgIx05wrC9YKeB8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Was going to bid until it went well over a grand. Eventually hit $1.7k, and I was shocked. For a plain-jane, Kahler'd, non-original, student model? Wow. That seemed like a lot of coin for this particular guitar, early serial # or not.

So that episode got me really thinking - what San Dimas Jacksons will eventually be the most collectible? The most sought after? I mean, that's been pretty well-defined for SD Charvels - stratheads, factory Floyds, original bumblebees, etc. But it's not quite so well-defined for SD Jacksons. Actually, to me, it seems to be still evolving over time. The Jacksons haven't quite hit the same collectibility "cache" that Charvels have. But I think, eventually, that will be inevitable.

So which ones will be the "it" guitars for Jackson?

- Besides the rare body styles (Roundhorn Vs, Explorers, 'birds)?
- Artist guitars, obviously. But what about "look alikes" - will those be desirable, too?
- Rhoads? Or Soloists?
- Custom models? What about more rare odd ones like Students with dots & binding?
- Factory Floyds? Wood post Floyds more valuable than studded inserts?
- Graphics, which were more rare for Jacksons in that era?
- Very early serials through '83? Or '84?
- Early guitars with 3 piece necks and no scarf joints?

I'm curious what you guys think about this. There would seem to be a lot to consider here.

[neilli]

Yeah, I'm stunned that guitar got that kind of price.

For me, Soloist Customs are the most interesting 'bread and butter' because it seems there's more variety in colours and specs. The holy grail are factory floyds, but 2 hums with a kahler is cool too. H/S/S with kahler is the least desirable config for me. However the market doesn't seem to reflect my tastes (good for buying, not so much for selling LOL) as they're generally cheaper than Rhoads. There's a ton of black/brass Rhoads out there, but people want them so they get higher prices.

Of course, then you're into things like firebirds and roundhorns, but I'm not sure how many of them came out of SD. The feeling I have is there were more from Ontario than San Dimas...

[Hellraiser6502]

Pfffft...that guitar surely didn't sell for that price...REALLY??? No way...

It was located/listed less than 5 miles from my home and I couldn't even be bothered to go after it @ $600.

SHILL...SHill, shill...it will be available still.

As for San Dimas collectibles. Hard to say... the market is all around crazy right now. Undervalued all over the map.

We'll have to wait at least another 5 years to see what's what.

IMO, 'value' is in the eye of the beholder in the case of '82-'86 Charvel/Jackson guitars .....the ones I own aren't for sale at any price....now or later.

[shreddermon]

Early on in the bidding, I think was thinking it was shilling, too. But 18 different bidders and 48 total bids? That's either legit or possibly some hard core shilling.

Yeah, I would love to nab an early Floyd'd SD RR custom as a player. Those prices seem pretty high lately, though. IMHO, that model/layout and STs will (eventually) be one of most desirable SD Jacksons to own. And, availability-wise, they seem to be becoming more rare.

Ian, I agree with Soloists customs, too. Especially factory Floyds and 2 hums. But they were made in such higher numbers - especially HSS & Kahler - that I think those values might stay pretty reasonable for a long time. Kind of comparable to pointyhead Charvels, IMHO. And they'll never have the "Randy" cache of an RR, either.

[xenophobe]

So that episode got me really thinking - what San Dimas Jacksons will eventually be the most collectible? The most sought after? I mean, that's been pretty well-defined for SD Charvels - stratheads, factory Floyds, original bumblebees, etc. But it's not quite so well-defined for SD Jacksons. Actually, to me, it seems to be still evolving over time. The Jacksons haven't quite hit the same collectibility "cache" that Charvels have. But I think, eventually, that will be inevitable.

Dude, that auction was a fluke. Not worth anything near that price. Two people just "had to have it", or it was shilled.

Charvel and Jacksons are NOT investment pieces. In the past 20 years, ALL of the "collectible" Jacksons and Charvels have not just stagnated, but they've depreciated. They have even failed to keep up with inflation. Look at Brett trying to sell his LTD for $7500. Everyone considers that a crack pipe price. By all means, it should be worth $7500 due to the rarity and age, so I don't have an issue with the price. It's not worth that. They seem to sell at the $3500-$4500 price point at best. They're selling for less now than they were a decade ago if you factor in inflation.

As a fanboi of Charvel and Jackson (and I am not a brand loyalist with anything else in life, except for maybe Bosch tools, which have also gone to shit in the last decade), I am deeply saddened how some of the most collectible pieces are worth less in todays value and money then they were a decade ago.

Artist owned stuff is probably worth the most. Then sig models they won't do anymore. Stuff like Firebirds, VVV's, unlicensed official stratheads... also stuff like Y2KVs, CS COW guitars, Friedman sig's, etc... The high end stuff they won't make anymore has held some decent value, but still hasn't really appreciated in value at all over the past 10-20 years.

I feel sorry for everyone who was paying $3-$6k for pre-pro Charvels a decade or more ago. But due to all the counterfeiting and non-factory parts mutts, most of those have lost value because of inflation. The only ones that probably haven't been hit so hard are the actual documented ones, which are far and few between and owned by a handful of collectors who trade amongst themselves. Most of the rest of the guitar collecting world does not care about them.

I don't know what the problem is, but the big feud between Charvel and Jackson collectors a decade ago couldn't have helped things and probably only made them a bit worse.

All I know, even though I've never bought any investment pieces made by C/J, is that this makes me really fucking sad. Some of those old guitars should be worth money. Maybe they will in another decade or two, but I kinda doubt it.

[neilli]

Ultimately, buy 'em because you like 'em and can afford 'em. For the most part, I've always got my money back, if not made a little - sometimes I've lost but not much. Right now, the market sucks right across the board unless you want to resort to Gibson or PRS.

[metalchurch79]

What does shilled mean? Kinda like a phantom bidder working in conjunction with the seller to drive the price up? That happens alot it seems to me.
Back on topic, wouldn't the graphics and finishes be a major factor, if not one of the most deciding? Seems alot of people buy for 'the look'
1humbucker/1volume/OFR are tits, and always will be!

[xenophobe]

An ebay shill is a fake bidder artificially driving up the price of an auction.

Ultimately, buy 'em because you like 'em and can afford 'em. For the most part, I've always got my money back, if not made a little - sometimes I've lost but not much. Right now, the market sucks right across the board unless you want to resort to Gibson or PRS.

+1.

And you would have been better off financially if you were putting that money into PRS and Gibson a decade or more ago, you might have had a 'portfolio' that appreciated in value.

[shreddermon]

No guitars are investments. Anyone who "invests" in a guitar solely for monetary gain likely doesn't understand finance much. Put your money to work in the market, that's where investments are made. So that's not the intended topic here at all.

Nonetheless, guitars do / will have value. So the topic is which SD Jacksons will be the most desirable? Both aesthetically and monetarily. Heck, I want them as players. To enjoy. That's what guitars are meant for. But that doesn't mean I don't want them to hold their value or appreciate a little with time, either. And it doesn't mean the monetary relationships between various Jackson models / features will stay the same with time. Some will appreciate in value more than others, and eventually become the most "desirable" in of the SD era. But no-one is going to retire off owning one. LOL

[xenophobe]

Yeah, but it's kinda sad if you plunk down $3k on a brand new Jackson only to have that value cut in half immediately after taking delivery of it.

My latest custom spec that I finalized was over $9k retail. I'd be lucky to sell it for more than $3k if I wanted to resell it. I ordered it the way I wanted because that's the way I wanted. It's gonna be amazing, like as much as my Masterbuilt Fender, but it won't hold the resale value my Fender does.

And sometimes you do get lucky. I bought my Showmaster just because of the price. If I wanted to flip it I could easily make $4-$5k off it. And yes, the decision to flip it will be solely based on if I bond with it or not. Just like my Ibanez M8M, which I did buy as an investment piece, I ended up loving it dearly, so it's a player and will get played and eventually scratched and dinged.

[Hellraiser6502]

No guitars are investments. Anyone who "invests" in a guitar solely for monetary gain likely doesn't understand finance much. Put your money to work in the market, that's where investments are made. So that's not the intended topic here at all.

Nonetheless, guitars do / will have value. So the topic is which SD Jacksons will be the most desirable? Both aesthetically and monetarily. Heck, I want them as players. To enjoy. That's what guitars are meant for. But that doesn't mean I don't want them to hold their value or appreciate a little with time, either. And it doesn't mean the monetary relationships between various Jackson models / features will stay the same with time. Some will appreciate in value more than others, and eventually become the most "desirable" in of the SD era. But no-one is going to retire off owning one. LOL

This pretty much sums up my own thinking...I have a few 'desirables' but didn't buy them based on making a profit someday....I appreciate them for their beauty as functional art and also the memories they bring back.

A special time in musical history that will never be again.

I HOPE I never HAVE to sell them...that's my prayer.

[xenophobe]

This pretty much sums up my own thinking...I have a few 'desirables' but didn't buy them based on making a profit someday....I appreciate them for their beauty as functional art and also the memories they bring back.

A special time in musical history that will never be again.

I HOPE I never HAVE to sell them...that's my prayer.

You have some truly special and amazingly rare Jacksons, but you bought them because you wanted them and you love them. You're one of the few CJ collectors that probably would make a decent profit if you wanted. But you can't get them back if you do. I had to sell a few of my keepers... it's heartbreaking. Hope you never do have to sell any of yours.


EDIT: And not to derail the thread, but I don't see much newer stuff that will hold it's value... I pretty much listed everything that's worth buying if you want an investment piece. Pre-86 factory Floyded guitars are probably the most generic collectable Jacksons. All the LTDs and PCS guitars will probably rebound if the economy gets strong. USA Selects will likely not increase in value either. One-offs will have to have something really unique about them to appreciate.

I don't think many artist sig guitars will appreciate, but stuff like COW CS guitars, Y2KVs, KV2's and KE1's are all good and remain somewhat stable. The $6k splatter guitars don't seem to be selling all that well, but who knows. At that price point, I find it hard to believe they'll appreciate at all.

[j2379]

I didn't think of my bcrichs as collectible I just wanted a koa and maple on each of the original shapes. People used to say I was nuts for paying close to $1000 for them back in the early 90s. Buy gibsons and fenders and gretsch. Well I don't like them. I still have them and have been offered nice $ for them, have they done better than the market? As a whole I think so. It's not like I was buying apple stock
Original question buy original buy mint buy non kahlered. You may not make $ but u sure as help wont lose any.

[coloradoman25]

Itll happen but i look at it just like vintage cars and toys...yall gotta look at WHO would be the market for these...Sure there will always be nostalgic youth that come along and love these...but the values will fall flatter when 80s generation rockers reach retirement age. Which we all are approaching faster and with the flat economy it has stalled them.

With that in mind you have to however look at some of the import charvels...the model series values for the model 2-4 range have increased exponentially IME over the last few years.

The way I see it is when the generation that wanted these as kids but couldnt afford them passes the "midlife crisis" age range is when the values begin to flatten and sustain instead of climb. That impulsive chasing of youthly dreams is what drives the market.

And FUNCTIONAL ART is the best term I can see to explain why i am so in love with saving the older ones. Yes of course when I was laid up more I was flippin em but they are for those of us that love the era and the pieces something that is worth saving. Functional art is an awesome term for these.

[decadence5423]

Right now, the market sucks right across the board unless you want to resort to Gibson or PRS.

Yep. I managed to sell my Gibson Explorer for what I bought it for. And I bought it right at the height of the market. At that time, the same store flipped a beat up plain black RR5 for about $550 in about a week, probably no case IIRC. Now you could probably get an almost mint one for that, and probably less.

What I think that RR really had going for it was it's condition.