Kelly without neck dive?

[VitaminG]

Correct me if I'm wrong. If you build a 22 fret guitar, but you keep the scale length, you can't move the bridge closer to the headstock. You would just be cutting the fretboard, opening some space between the pickups, but the bridge would stay in the same position, otherwise the scale would be affected.

In this case, the guitar proportions would remain the same, so it would not affect the center of gravity nor the balance with a strap.

the whole string length (nut to bridge) moves 2 frets closer to the body. The distance from the bridge to headstock is the same but the headstock is relatively closer to the body, which will help with neck dive. The bridge position will have to move, but not towards the headstock or else the scale will change as you said. The bridge will have to be located further away from the neck heel to account for the fretboard being 2 frets shorter

[Jayster]

Lift some weights, develop your traps and chest. Use a wide leather strap... SHEESH, Kelly's rule!

[gnarzan]

Never noticed too much neck dive on my KEXMG and the body is basswood. I am am a Kelly/Explorer guy and when I play I rest my elbow on the top of the body mid way on the horn. I also have a cotton strap. I wonder if strap button position has any effect cause the USA Kellys have it located closer to the tip of the horn.

[pagemalicious]

I use a wide Levy suede strap which holds up my Kelly perfectly.

[blackwing]

I use Dunlop strap locks, and found my Kelly dived with the strap button in the stock position. I then read a post by someone who moved the strap button to one of the four screws that holds the neck plate on. If you're facing the back of the guitar, it's the screw that is closer to the trem cavity and also closest to the Low E edge of the guitar. I had to drill my strap lock button out a bit for the neck screw to fit, but once it was moved it completely stopped the neck diving and felt balanced. I worried that maybe the neck screw wouldn't hold the neck on properly but it's rock solid and doesn't cause any tuning issues. HTH.

[Newc]

For bolt-on necks, if you get a narrow-ended strap like the leather ones with the "tail" or a DiMarzio Clip Lock, you can mount the front strap pin on the edge of the neck pocket between the neck bolts and that will help more than mounting it on the neck bolt or plate.
Wide strap ends won't fit there, so you have to use one with a narrow end.

Grippy straps do not correct the inherent design flaw of Explorer shapes, they just transfer the downward pull onto your shoulder rather than your fretting hand. It's still not good or correct.

You can relocate the strap to the back of the neck heel on a neckthrough, or as someone here posted some years ago, to one of the holes for the trem cavity cover (top front - closest to Low E and closest to spring claw) so the strap hugs you. It's basically like a seat belt.

You can also relocate the rear strap pin so it's closer to the upper tip of the body to move the center of mass further towards your picking hand, which puts the bridge in a more natural Les Paul/Strat position over your right front pocket instead of in front of your zipper. As well, you don't have to angle the guitar so your picking hand is more comfortable but you're reaching further across your body with your fretting hand, and you don't have to lean over and sideways to let the guitar dangle freely so your arms can sit more comfortably while killing your back.

[ilbianconero]

If I were in your place, I wouldn't order a kelly because you can never be sure till you get it so in my view it's not worth the risk.
I had a custom kelly that neck dived too.
Best balancing ones are strat shapes and kv's. I think this is due to their symmetrical bodies.

[VoiceX3]

If I were in your place, I wouldn't order a kelly because you can never be sure till you get it so in my view it's not worth the risk.
I had a custom kelly that neck dived too.
Best balancing ones are strat shapes and kv's. I think this is due to their symmetrical bodies.

If you want a Kelly......a KV, RR or Strat shape simply will not do. If you're going to build a custom get what you want, not what others tell you to. I've owned a couple Kellys. The bolt ons all dove with a normal strap so I'd move the strap button to the neck plate and it was a bit better. The KE2 dove just a bit, but it did dive a little. The larger "King Kelly" scale size does not dive at all with the bottom button in the normal location and the top one in the center where the body and neck meet. Balances perfectly with any strap. So if you want a Kelly.....GET A KELLY.

[ilbianconero]

If you want a Kelly......a KV, RR or Strat shape simply will not do. If you're going to build a custom get what you want, not what others tell you to. I've owned a couple Kellys. The bolt ons all dove with a normal strap so I'd move the strap button to the neck plate and it was a bit better. The KE2 dove just a bit, but it did dive a little. The larger "King Kelly" scale size does not dive at all with the bottom button in the normal location and the top one in the center where the body and neck meet. Balances perfectly with any strap. So if you want a Kelly.....GET A KELLY.

I think I'm being misunderstood as is often the case when you write something online. I wasn't trying to push other shapes for him as it's his own decision entirely. I was simply doing a comparison of my experience between different shapes and didn't find the kelly be nearly as good as strat and V shape. So, I'm giving him my personal findings and "using other shapes as reference points".

I think MetalDaze wants to be sure what he gets is good from the word go without having to mod, fuss, etc. And we we can see some people report satisfaction with kelly type shapes and some disappointment balance-wise. Therefore, there seems to be an inherent risk perhaps he should factor in. His heart wants it but his head holds him back.
He himself has experienced the dive and that he wants to spend a lot of money and time to wait for a possible custom order and he likes to find out if he can be sure up-front or not. I reckon one can't be sure unfortunately.

Maybe king kelly size will do the trick (I have no idea). But he needs a consensus on this requiring a fair few people (a majority) agreeing together that, for example, the king kelly shape will solve your problem.

[Newc]

From the pics I've seen, the USA Kelly rear strap pin is slightly higher than the import model, which affects the balance point and neck dive.

As for the personal experiences of others, how many of those who say "nah it's fine no problem" are using a grippy strap (cotton, leather, etc) or some other "fix" like lead tape or fishing weights in the control cavity?


If it's a full-on Custom Shop and not Custom Select, I'd say get a War Kelly with the top front horn of a Warrior with the Kelly body. Put the pin under the front horn and problem-solved.

[ps43203]

It's all about strap button placement, (and body size), it shouldn't be an issue if you request, NO neck dive. They could make sure at the factory. They certainly must be aware of the issue. I like the bigger body Kelly as opposed to the smaller modern ones. The smaller body contributes to the neck dive, for sure. Physics don't lie.

[euronymous]

Thanks, guys. Not sure it's helped me make my decision though

I never had trouble with KV or RRs. Just that damn Kelly. Maybe going to a heavier body wood like mahogany would help too.

I am afraid that mah doesn't help because the mah jackson uses is pretty lightweight. Imo much lighter than alder

[rickrokkett]

hi! I own a KE3 that has a considerable neck dive. I'd like not to drill additional holes, so I'm planning on relocating the neck strap button to one of the neckplate screws, which many suggest as a solution. but is adding extra pressure to the neck screws really safe? has anybody tried it for themselves?

[metalhobo]

hi! I own a KE3 that has a considerable neck dive. I'd like not to drill additional holes, so I'm planning on relocating the neck strap button to one of the neckplate screws, which many suggest as a solution. but is adding extra pressure to the neck screws really safe? has anybody tried it for themselves?

never done it myself but plenty of charvels (like stars, explorers) have been done with neck-plate mounted strap buttons, and I've never heard about issues. I can't imagine why it would be "unsafe". just make sure you use a screw that's extended by the same length as the strap button adds.

you could imagine something happening if, for example, you threw the guitar and caught it by the strap, which would yank the bolt. the worst thing I could think of in that scenario is potentially pulling the neck out of alignment. but even that seems really really unlikely, as you're only apply force to one of four bolts.

[rickrokkett]

never done it myself but plenty of charvels (like stars, explorers) have been done with neck-plate mounted strap buttons, and I've never heard about issues. I can't imagine why it would be "unsafe". just make sure you use a screw that's extended by the same length as the strap button adds.

you could imagine something happening if, for example, you threw the guitar and caught it by the strap, which would yank the bolt. the worst thing I could think of in that scenario is potentially pulling the neck out of alignment. but even that seems really really unlikely, as you're only apply force to one of four bolts.

thank you so much! then I'll try it