How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

[Jim Shine]

I just got one and I am pretty pissed to learn the guitar is not really a San Dimas era guitar. It has a non-recessed Floyd, but the nut is the same as the one used with the JT6, perhaps this once had a JT6 and was swapped? The neckplate is marked with the typical San Dimas address and has a serial number in the 6000's.

[ January 24, 2003, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Jim Shine ]

[rstites]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

All 1988 bolt-on Jackson guitars have San Dimas plates. I haven't checked the Jackson website recently, but back before the buy-out they had a serial number page. Most San Dimas plated Jacksons were built in Ontario and most were built from '87-'89. There are only a few hundred that were built in the San Dimas plant. Is this what you're asking?

Is that my old one? If so, the neck, body, and plate are all original and started life together. Pull them apart. The neck and body actually have the same work order number (if memory serves - it was years ago that I pulled them apart), so I assume it was specificly ordered the way it came. (FYI there are a lot of these Jackons that have Kahler style nuts and Floyd trems. I have another that's similarly equipped.)

Ross

[Jim Shine]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Yes, its your old one. The body is dated 6/22/88 and there are only a few digits between the body and neck order numbers (3556 on neck and 3559 on body). Here is what the guy at the Jackson Museum had to say:

hey ... the serial exists on the jackson website, but they were mixed up inbetween 87 - 89. going by the workorder number 3559 it would be around late 87 / early 88. It is not a San Dimas era guitar.

They actually used up the san dimas ordered plates during the first couple of ontario years, which is why they still state san dimas. for the 87 - 89 period (in any case ontario) the bolt-on serial numbers are mixed up (i.e. not used consecutively), but the workorder numbers are clue, if somebody would care to start listing these up. I've done so on the san dimas period (thats up on my site), but you can assume that workorder number 1000 was given on an order around late 86 (plus / minus), so take it from there on - yours would probably be late 87 / early 88 and in that case completed by june 88. again - the serials won't be consecutive, but the workorder numbers should be (but will also include neckthroughs). of course inbetween is build time, which then again depending on grafics / degree of custom specs / etc. would vary.

[ January 24, 2003, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Jim Shine ]

[rstites]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Jim,

I appreciate the info. It's more than I ever had. I knew the numbers were all scrambled in there, but never followed up on what time period it actually came from. I could have sworn the numbers were the same, but I must have just rushed past the 6 vs. 9 thing there.

My understanding is that the numbers typically don't match (don't on any of my others and I know they're all original), so don't assume they didn't start life together. I just assumed with the unusual features (reverse headstock and rare graphic) that someone special-ordered it and the two were made at the same time since I'd thought the numbers matched.

Aside: if you want the pics of it I have up, copy them. I have to clean out some space (it's my work account!) and they're getting deleted over the weekend. I just didn't want anyone to think I'd pulled them due to this thread.

Play it, enjoy it. It's a great guitar, built by the same people, under the same management, etc. as the San Dimas guitars. (The line in the sand is after Grover left in 1989 IMO.) I hate having to defend a guitar I didn't sell you, but I also hate to see that instrument not be enjoyed because it's a great guitar.

Ross

[ January 24, 2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: rstites ]

[nor]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

My '88LE is Ontario, but plated San Dimas. No big.

[Jim Shine]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

No need to defend the guitar, just be careful what you label as being San Dimas in the future. It was your listing that sold me on the guitar.

It IS a great guitar. I wont let the origin of its manufacture obscure my thoughts on that.

[rstites]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Just to be clear, I did list it specificly as "San Dimas plated", not as San Dimas built. I thought that was the clearest, most succinct way of saying what it is. Sorry, if it mislead you. I either had the serial number listed or gave it to anyone that asked (can't remember which now). I really don't know how I could have been more clear about what the instrument is.

Edit: I assume you're refering my original ad when I sold it.

Ross

[ January 24, 2003, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: rstites ]

[Jim Shine]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

You had it listed as:

"San Dimas Jackson strat, Ferrari red, Lightning graphic, reverse headstock, Bill Lawerence pickups (have a set of Jackson pickups also), real Floyd. This has supposedly been sold twice to JCFers who've flaked on me, so I'm posting it again. Here's a link for the pics"

See what I mean?

[rstites]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Sorry, I must have had a typo in there. It happens unfortunately. I wish you would have emailed me before hand on this and just asked about it, if this was a major issue for you. Most of the "San Dimas Jackson" strats out there were really built in Ontario, so you really have to ask if you're concerned about such things.

Ross

[charvel750]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Jim, who sold who the guitar? I gather Ross didn't sell it to you, but I'm confused as to how you would let his advertisement of it influence your decision to buy it if there's another seller involved here. Please clarify...

[yogadork]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Just remember that San Dimas Jackson boltons end at serial #1500 and you won't be in any doubt. Also most of us are aware of that here on the forum and take it for granted that a San Dimas plate on a Jackson means Ontario 95% of the time. Although quite a few have made the mistake or have been suckered by the San Dimas myth into buying an Ontario Jackson as a San Dimas one.Theres really nothing wrong with the Ontario Jacksons and they go for a fraction of the price. Actually some of the more esoteric graphic ones are total sleepers and for the going price are a total bargin and meet every criteria for a valuable collectable. Pretty soon all the Charvels are going to be bought up or so outrageous in price that Ontarios will get a bump just like 70's Fenders have done recently.

[Jim Shine]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Correct, I did not buy it from rstites. He posted the ad for it a few weeks back, and by the time I got to the ad, I missed out. The buyer couldn't keep it and sold it to me only after having it for about a week.

I am not holding anyone accountable for my deal, I am pointing out a guitar was advertised here with just enough information (or missing just enough info) to make one assume it was a San Dimas era guitar. Isn't that of interest? If the deal went down on eBay it would be a hot topic.

As far as the comment "Most of the "San Dimas Jackson" strats out there were really built in Ontario, so you really have to ask if you're concerned about such things. " is concerned, maybe someone who has experience and info on the Jackson brand may be in the know, but the regular bystander would take "San Dimas Jackson Strat" at face value.

This reminds me of the seedy vintage Fender market where 1965 Fender's are called Pre-CBS even though they aren't. Granted, they are made in the same factory by the same people with the same parts, but there is a distinction between the two.

[ January 25, 2003, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Jim Shine ]

[kennslp]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Jim,
Yes, unfortunately this is a common occurance. At least you didn't fall victim to the "Fort Worth TX = Made in USA" fiasco that I did when I bought my first Model 6. Take solace in the fact that it IS a great axe. The Ontario Dinkys/Strats are HUGELY underated IMHO. I have several myself, including 2 LE 88's, a Snake skin Strat, and my two main guitars:



As much as I love my SD era guitars (and I do!) I play these guys much more often, and they are the ones I gig w/ (when I'm gigging that is..)

-Kenn

[Jim Shine]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Oh yeah, I competely agree with you Ken. This thread was totally about me learning from the experience. The reason why I was asking came up, and thats why it was talked about at all. Once I give this guitar a pro-fret dress, I will be happy.

Now I know that most San Dimas guitars are not really San Dimas guitars. I will keep the tip provided by yogadork in mind when buying in the future. As a matter of fact, next time I will probably get his advice before I buy something like this again.

[rstites]

Re: How common are San Dimas neckplates on 1988 guitars?

Jim,

You're implying here that I advertised something with an intent to deceive people. I deeply resent that insinuation. Up until now this conversation has been reasonable and very friendly considering how hot the topic is. I suggest we stay there and don't let it go any farther down the road that the following paragraph suggests:

"I am not holding anyone accountable for my deal, I am pointing out a guitar was advertised here with just enough information (or missing just enough info) to make one assume it was a San Dimas era guitar. Isn't that of interest? If the deal went down on eBay it would be a hot topic."

If it were on ebay, it would have had a full description. Here it had one sentence and instructions to email me for details. The two situations are not analogous.

"As far as the comment "Most of the "San Dimas Jackson" strats out there were really built in Ontario, so you really have to ask if you're concerned about such things. " is concerned, maybe someone who has experience and info on the Jackson brand may be in the know, but the regular bystander would take "San Dimas Jackson Strat" at face value."

The comment was made for future reference. In the C/J communitee the "San Dimas Jackson" reference is well understood. (While I really did mean to have the plated part in there, the fact is that even without it, most people around here knew exactly what I had.) You're probably correct about someone outside the community not following all of our jargon, just like they couldn't follow inside jokes, etc. However, the ad was in our committee, as is this discussion, and not to world at large.

"This reminds me of the seedy vintage Fender market where 1965 Fender's are called Pre-CBS even though they aren't. Granted, they are made in the same factory by the same people with the same parts, but there is a distinction between the two."

There's a big difference between someone intentionally trying to deceive and someone trying to pass on information about an item that is misunderstood. The net effect for an uninformed buyer may be the same, but that doesn't mean the seller is guilty of deception in the one case. I hope you can see that.

Btw, I have been on the other end of this. My one remaining San Dimas Jackson is also an '87-'89 one and I didn't realize until after I bought it that it was built somewhere else. I don't care and never would have blamed the seller for my own lack of knowledge. I also bought a POS body that I had been informed was a San Dimas Charvel body. It wasn't even close, but I didn't know enough to judge then. Unfortunately, I didn't discover about the deception until I tried to resell it! Luckily, the guy on the other end was pretty cool about it...

On to something a bit more positive...how do you like the Bill Lawerence pickups?

Ross