What trem do I have?

[samhain88]

Hi everyone!

I recently purchased a USA RR-1, and from the serial number it seems it was built in '94....the trem says Jackson on the side and Licensed Under Floyd Rose Patents....anyone have an idea as to the exact model?

[charvel750]

Re: What trem do I have?

Well, if the serial number begins with a "U0" then it's a Schaller JT-590 tremolo. In 1994 Jackson was still using that tremolo on their USA Production guitars. These were made by Schaller in Germany and stamped with the Jackson logo. Schaller also made them for Gibson, Charvel, and others.

[jackson1]

Re: What trem do I have?

Check this out, it might help you:

Trem info

[samhain88]

Re: What trem do I have?

Thanks for the info guys, really helpful! Does anyone have an opinion about the JT590? Or what models are considered the best to worse? (I'm sure all of them are good, I'm just curious).

I haven't been a member of this board very long, but I have to say out of all the guitar forums this one is the most helpful and knowledgable by far!

[Thoraby]

Re: What trem do I have?

The Schaller JT-590 and the OFR are considered the best trems around.

[jackson1]

Re: What trem do I have?

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the OFR is far superior to the JT590 Schaller. The OFR pictured in the trem thread (chrome) i bought from new in 1986. The JT590 (also pictured) i bought from new in 1997.

I every category the OFR smokes the JT590:

The OFR sounds better. Less resonance from the saddles and therefore better sustain and tone. The saddles on a Floyd Rose type tremolo is a BIG tone killer IMO due to resonance, so the better the workmanship the better the sound.

The knives on the 17 years old OFR are like new and has ALWAYS stayed in tune no matter what. The knives on the JT590 were worn after 2-3 years and therefore don't stay in tune.
NOTE: the knives on the OFR is part of it's baseplate = simple rigid construction. The knives on the JT590 is a separate piece of supposedly hardened metal (yeah right), inserted into the baseplate = unnessary complicated design.

The baseplate of the OFR is made of hardened steel. The JT590 is NOT. So the threads for the saddles on the JT590 are bound to be worn over time.

This is my experience with these trems. Others may not have had the same problems with their JT590.

[xenophobe]

Re: What trem do I have?

If you can tell the difference between an OFR and a JT-590, tone wise, you must have the ears of a dog. [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[777SteveVai777]

Re: What trem do I have?

Originally posted by jackson1:
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the OFR is far superior to the JT590 Schaller. The OFR pictured in the trem thread (chrome) i bought from new in 1986. The JT590 (also pictured) i bought from new in 1997.

I every category the OFR smokes the JT590:

The OFR sounds better. Less resonance from the saddles and therefore better sustain and tone. The saddles on a Floyd Rose type tremolo is a BIG tone killer IMO due to resonance, so the better the workmanship the better the sound.

The knives on the 17 years old OFR are like new and has ALWAYS stayed in tune no matter what. The knives on the JT590 were worn after 2-3 years and therefore don't stay in tune.
NOTE: the knives on the OFR is part of it's baseplate = simple rigid construction. The knives on the JT590 is a separate piece of supposedly hardened metal (yeah right), inserted into the baseplate = unnessary complicated design.

The baseplate of the OFR is made of hardened steel. The JT590 is NOT. So the threads for the saddles on the JT590 are bound to be worn over time.

This is my experience with these trems. Others may not have had the same problems with their JT590.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you test the Schaller and OFR on the same guitar? If not then the 2 different guitars could be the cause of the as you seem to make it, huge tonal difference. Were the two guitars of the same wood? Same pickups? Both neck-thru or bolt on?

Not knocking you bro, I'm just curious. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[charvel750]

Re: What trem do I have?

Sorry, Jackson1 but you must be confusing the JT-590 with something else (Ibanez Edge perhaps?!) Schaller made the Floyd Rose in Germany. They are identical and were made side by side in the same shop. The JT-590 and OFR are absolutely the same in tone and sustain. I tried both (and some others, like the Jackson JT-6) on the same guitar a few months ago. NO DIFFERENCE in tone or function. Maybe you do have the ears of a dog though, I'm just telling you the way it is for me and 99% of this Forum.

[jackson1]

Re: What trem do I have?

I knew this was gonna sound like i'm some kind of a freakin' idiot - that's why i included the last sentence "This is my experience with these trems. Others may not have had the same problems with their JT590" [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I used to have ears like a dog, now it's more like an old dogs - flappy and hairy [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Serioulsy, Word, the "tests" were carried out on the same guitar, my Jackson Rhoads Pro from around 93'. At some point i got irritated on my JT590 that was mounted on the Rhoads.
It couldn't stay in tune due to worn knives (2-3 years of heavy use).
The threads for the saddles were going.
And worst, there was a distinct acoustic jingling, clinking, chinking sound coming from saddle area on the low E string and especially the H string. A resonance/vibration that is easily heard both acoustically (no amp) and through an amp and it prevents the string to vibrate freely. A bit like fret buzz. It crossed my mind to record this and show you but i didn't. Rocking (moving) the long Allen locking screws, thereby moving the saddles, stroking a string repeatedly, changes this resonance. I did a LOT of tests, and the culprit is the saddles.

So, i mounted my 17 years old OFR and all these problems disappeared. The difference in sound must be due to the lack of resonance in my OFR.

Xeno, maybe you wouldn't describe this as a tonal difference but to my ears, unwanted resonance changes (kills) the sustain and added chinking to every stroke of the string surely makes a different sound.

Joe, i can't understand you're saying that they are "identical". That's plain wrong. Look at the photos and read my description (you know this already). Different baseplate hardening, different knives construction, different long Allen screw design. And actually the tiny gaps between every saddle on my OFR are slightly wider than those on the JT590. Small mechanical differences that might not be so accidental as one would think. I guess i have what you'd call a Monday-version" of a JT590 :-/

Why are my posts always so long?

[xenophobe]

Re: What trem do I have?

You know, I've over a half-dozen custom shop Jacksons, some of them string-thru, some of them bolt on, and with various trems. JT6, Schaller and OFR. I have a decent ear, and non-amplified sustain has more to do with wood type than brand of trem.

Sure, bolt-on and neck-thru, as well as trem type indeed does play a part in that, but the differences in sustain would be measurable in milliseconds if anything.

There's no real subjective way to tell tone, IMO. Take two identical guitars, with different trems, play them blind folded, I seriously doubt there would be any noticable tone differences, and from what I've experienced, there weren't really any. I never did an exhaustive study, but none of my trems were "rattling" or making any of the noises you described.

I contend that if they're properly maintained and 100% functional, you won't notice a difference. By your own admittance, there were problems with one of the trems you were judging, that in itself rules it out in a comparison to another trem that's fully functional. Oh well...

Again, I'll state, that in your comparison, one of the trems had worn knife edges, problems with saddles and who knows what else.

Not to be a dick, but the next thing I'm gonna hear someone say is that there's a noticable tone and sustain difference with different gauge floyd springs...

[Genebaby]

Re: What trem do I have?

The knife edges on the JT590 are hardened steel, they are the good stuff. It's made in Germany, by SCHALLER, the people who make the OFR, they don't make crap. It's German precision and quality parts all the way baby.

The JT590 utilizes a different baseplate/knife edge design but uses the same saddles as the OFR, with shorter saddle block screws. You can change the gap between saddles when you are setting intonation. Also, newer JT590s (just labelled Schaller when you buy them normally) have hardened steel inserts for the intonation screws. So they are harder to strip like an OFR, but can be changed out if they do, just like the knife edges.

So, the 590 rocks, and so does the OFR, love them both.