History/Serial # question Genreal

[kickaxeguitars]

Has anyone ever pondered the thought of which Jackson Guitar is the last old school logo with the "made in the USA" under the "Jackson" part of the logo and which Guitar has the first "newer" style logo?
It's quite obvious it was in'86 probably around the same time of the move to Ontario.

I seen a couple Soloists on Ebay that are "San Dimas" and have the old style logo. The serials are in the 22XX series.

Does anyone have a higher number then 22XX that has the old style logo?

[Chuckracer]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

Yeah, we've debated that in depth here and best as we could come up with, is that like many other "transitional" things related to Jacksons and Charvels, there never was any exact date of anything. Things were pretty loose in those days and workers would grab a decal out of whichever stack, wether old design or new, was closest to them. Same with the transition from "Charvel" logos to "Jackson" logos, serialized trem plates, etc.
You can chase serial nunbers till yer blue in the face and never come up with the "last" of this or the "first" of that.

[xenophobe]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

There are examples of San Dimas guitars with both the "made in USA" under and to the side of the Jackson logo.

As far as I know, nobody has ever used serial #'s to try to pin that down better...

[Chuckracer]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

Yes, we have done that right here and drew no real conclusions.

[RacerX]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

Originally posted by Chuckracer:
there never was any exact date of anything. Things were pretty loose in those days and workers would grab a decal out of whichever stack, wether old design or new, was closest to them.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Damn, I wish *I* was in charge of Jackson then! I would've ruled WITH AN IRON FIST [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] and you guys wouldn't be so frustrated now! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[BLOOD SPLATTER]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

Wouldn't you be too busy correcting their spelling & grammar?? [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Chucksplatter

[charvel750]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

Chuck's right on with his reply. The transition was gradual and we have seen some early 1986 models with the "Made in USA" out to the side and then some mid '86 models with it under the logo. What can be determined is which was the last guitar made in 1986, but then again, no one here has definitively shown when the first Ontario guitar was built.

[kickaxeguitars]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

This is only a guess at best, or maybe more of a theory.

It may be very well possible that a run of guitars (let's say Soloists as an example) all got milled-bodies and necks as raw wood only, on let's say Jan, 1986.

For shits and giggles let's say it was 100 Soloists..

So now we have 100 Soloists, each one waiting on it's final assembly specs.

So we take the 25 and make em black with a kahler, 10 pink, 15 white. Easy enough, these guitars will be finished in a month or two so now we are in March so we have the old style logo's.

Now we have 50 blanks left and let's say these were custom ordered to spec.. Now we have wait on paint, maybe a Floyd,EMG's.. you get the picture..

Well, we all know how long it takes jackson to complete a custom guitar. So by the time the your custom order Jackson in 1986 was built and finished, it was the ned of the year and you had the newer style logo..

The other part of the equation not mentioned above would be that in all actualality, your 1986 Soloist with an old logo, probably was built in 1985 but not finished until 1986.

I know it's a shot in the dark fella's but these dumb details keep me awake at night. How could a professional company keep such shady records?

ARRRGGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[Jim Shine]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

I would think that decals were applied after things like fretting and binding were complete. I have and have seen '86 Soloists with the frets over the binding and old style decal. The thing to remember is that even though it was a 'custom shop' it was also a factory and transitions happen with every change. For what it is worth my '86 was completed in May and has the old logo.

[shreddermon]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

Originally posted by kickaxeguitars:
...Well, we all know how long it takes jackson to complete a custom guitar. So by the time the your custom order Jackson in 1986 was built and finished, it was the ned of the year and you had the newer style logo.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I custom ordered my first Jackson in late '85. I don't recall the exact date of ordering, but it was late fall or so. I received it in April '86.

My point being that custom orders took somewhat less time back then. (...As compared to 12-15 months in the recent "pre-Fender" era. [img]graemlins/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Not now, which is much less again.) Build time was only around six months-ish. Probably somewhat more for a compicated graphic or whatnot, less for a total plain-jane'r.

[shreddermon]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

P.S.- That guitar was a Soloist, has the "Made in USA" after the N, and is most defintely a San Dimas.

[charvel750]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

kickaxeguitars said, "How could a professional company keep such shady records?"

Well, they did keep good records in the log books. The serial numbers with work orders are the way to date the guitars. You're right though, many guitars were indeed started months before completion but the guitar is assigned a "birth date" at completion, not during construction.

[Chuckracer]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

Not to mention it WAS the eighties. I don't know if you've really looked at the pics of the dudes working there, but I'd venture to say if you claim to have memories of working at Charvel/Jackson in those days you're lyin.

[Newc]

Re: History/Serial # question Genreal

They weren't such a "professional company" (i.e. traditional organization) at the time - I'm sure they were paddling hard to keep afloat and stay on top of the orders pouring in after Rhoads' success (and all that free advertising he did).
I'm sure they did their best to devise a sensible system of documenting everything, but from what I understand there was only builders and the receptionist for workers - no traditional managers or other such "office geeks".

Newc