So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

[pitboss]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

You're right, Newc, you'd be paying more for less - technically. The surcharges would be for the nominal difference from the " standard " models. If I could get a reverse head 1 hum 1 volume guitar, I'd pay the extra $100 or whatever so I'm happy and Jackson is happy - but it's all just a pipe dream cause it ain't gonna happen.

[sambencuda]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Yeah, but if they make them all the same they can push them out faster. If they have to stop on every one to see what this one gets, it slows the pruduction down which costs more money. I totally agree with the fact that you should have to pay les, for less. Like the string thru soloists. They should be cheaper than trem guitars. There is less to and route. I think you right Newc, but in the big corporate world they look to charge for any variance. It sucks to be us! Carvin needs to offer these options because they aren't as popular. If you start a guitar company Newc, I would buy exclusivly from you!

[No Use]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

thats should be enough to get Jackson started on Newc's ideas. the threat of Jackson losing most of their clientele on Dr. Newcenstein's Guitar Company!

[toejam]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Originally posted by sambencuda:
Carvin needs to offer these options because they aren't as popular.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's why Carvin's been around for more than 50 years. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Originally posted by A.Pulverizer:
Are we gonna have this discussion once or twice a year???
McD explained this 1 a while back.
In a couple threads even.

http://www.jcfonline.com/ubb/noncgi/...1;t=001604;p=1

http://www.jcfonline.com/ubb/noncgi/...1;t=001578;p=1

Seeing what the proto was, compared to what was specced, I don't think it's a good idea.
I think these guys must have alot on their minds.
Don't give them anything more to think about. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There were no "explanations", from what I recall of those threads (I didn't re-read them, so I may have missed something) but from what I do recall, it all boiled down to "The models are spec'd a certain way, and that's the only way they will ever be made, and we will not add any new models" (with the notable exception of the KV2T and 24 fret RRs).
-So far, the 24 fret RR is only available in a stripped-down low-feature bolt-on import, when people have been asking for neckthrough, ebony, fins, and binding to go with the 24 frets. Yes Jackson imports are defintely killer, BUT a Rhoads with rosewood and dots looks like shit. Plain and simple. It always has, it always will. Stringthrough with or without a V-plate I can tolerate, but DOTS on a friggin pointy V shape looks like crap. I don't wanna hear about and do not care about the Rhoads Student models from the "olde days" - they looked stupid then and they look stupid now. Yes fins and binding costs more, as does neckthrough construction. Yet the "test bed" to see how well a 24 fret RR is going to sell (mostly to fans of Alexi Laiho, I might add) looks nothing like what it should IMO.

-The KV2T is a nice change, but those pearloid buttons have to go right now. They look stupid. It looks like a street-fighting punk trying to wear a tuxedo. Pearloid buttons look great on Les Pauls, SG Customs, and PRS, but not on a pointy V. It's an Artistic combination that only the original Artiste can appreciate. It combines Elegance with Brutality, and all that other "Art F@g" shit. It looks stupid and it always will. Are they selling? Probably not. People did want a 24 3/4" scale stringthrough King V, but I don't recall anyone saying they wanted pearloid buttons and weak flametops with pretty bursts. This "Beauty and the Beast" nonsense has got to stop.

Yet still we see people asking why in the hell you have to pay DOUBLE USA Select prices to get ONE or TWO items changed. I'm telling you, a system of readily-interchangeable components is the only way to go.
Don't gimme that "stopping to look at a work order" business: If I can get a cheeseburger with everything/no onion and supersize my fries and the stupid teenager behind the counter NOT screw it up, I don't see why a trained luthier can't take a second to read a work order.
If it's a question of disorganized/illegible paperwork, I can take care of that in one day. All I gotta do is be there to see exactly where the slowdowns are.

And yes, Jackson's days are numbered - it should only take me 20 years to catch up to where they are now, then after that you're all mine [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Newc

[quiksilver]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Newc,

From a technical standpoint, you're right in saying that the delete options SHOULD cost less, not more.

However, my point is to demonstrate that offering easy-to-implement upgrades/options is a no-brainer moneymaker for Jackson, which could charge MORE for something that costs LESS to make, but many people (like me) would happily pay an extra $100 or so to get what I want, quickly, instead of paying double the price and waiting for a very long time for an all-out Custom Shop that only has a few enhancements.

[pro-fusion]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Newc, just for the record, I totally agree with you on this. The idea of an 'intermediate custom shop' that offers simple options to the USA Select guitars makes a lot of sense, leaving the true custom shop for the stuff that requires a lot of work.

However, it may be that the economics of Jackson are different than that: it wouldn't surprise me if the USA Selects were 'loss leaders', with the difference being made up in the Custom Shop orders--*especially* those CS orders that don't require much additional work beyond the basic design (different bridge, different colored binding, etc). Given how very inexpensive the USA Selects are compared to guitars from ESP, PRS and Schecter, I wouldn't be surprised if they are money losers...

[sambencuda]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Newc, I hear ya and agree with you whole heartidly, but we all know it is what it is and it ain't gonna change. Quicksilvers point is that, with your idea of interchangable parts and a minimal fee for those options, Jackson makes money and a lot of us are happier because in the end, paying a litle extra versus double is a nobrainer. Everybody wins. This is the way Jackson was before the 90's and I liked it much better, but I still agree that they are the best guitars made in the USA. That means Gibson, Fender, Carvin, PRS and the rest. For that opinion I pay the price of taking whatever the put out there as long as the high quality doesn't suffer. How about lowering the Custom shop prices!!!!

Toejam, Carvins are awesome. I've owned many of them, but next to Jackson, they aren't as popular. That doesn't mean that they aren't killer axes. It's just that the masses don't dig them like they dig Jacksons. I personaly think it's awesome that they are stricly mail order. I also think a bigger part to their success is due to their Pro Audio lines. You can score huge on used Carvins. You get all the quality of a high end Jackson or PRS for a hell of a lot less.

Rock on Brothers! [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[xenophobe]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

If they did all that, then they would not be making them assembly line style...

There is no "button" to press on a CNC to say 1 hum 2 hum, route differently, etc... when they're doing a batch of 15-25 guitars that are identical, they just feed them one step at a time through the process.

Making a change on 1 guitar DOES take extra time, so then it is handled as 1 individual guitar.

I sure would like to see all those customizations at USA Select prices, but it just doesn't work that way and bitching and moaning about it won't change anything.

If you've ever been in any kind of production supervision or management position, you would know that it's just not as simple as some people in this thread would like to believe.

[JacksonJuiceBox]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Newc, i think u just head over to the jackson cs and start kicking some ass [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Give them some physical exertion

[Newc]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

How much extra time does it take? Seriously? Say you've got an assembly line doing DK-1s. The bodies have been shaped and are going to get routed for pickups. You just write the pickup letters where the pickups go (H or S in the appropriate spot). Since that wood's being cut out anyway, you write it there.
Same for bridge options. That'll work for every model, neckthrough OR bolt-on. Write it on the inside edge of the body wing and no one will ever see it once it's assembled, plus it won't interfere with the paint.

So far, pro-fusion has had the most realistic answer - maybe the USA Selects are actually losing money, and the double-cost Custom Shops and imports are what's keeping the company afloat and making up the loss.

WHatever the case, I still would not encourage Jackson to charge one cent more for something that does not cost one cent more, no matter how desireable the option, because if anything like what I've proposed is implemented, you can look for that $50-$100 upcharge you're willing to pay to actually be $100-$200, and that's counter-productive as a customer. If you offer a business $100, they will ask for $200 every time.

Look at it this way: if I'm the type that NEVER uses a neck pickup, never flips the pickup switch, and never turns the Tone knob, and I want a guitar that only has a single-hum and a single Volume knob, and someone tells me they'll do less physical work on a guitar for $200 more, I'll save that $200 and just not use the Tone knob or flip the switch. Unused single-coil routes and Tone knob/switch holes do not rob your guitar of tone, and cosmetics are quickly gotten over (yeah a single hum/one-knobber looks cool, but not $200-extra cool)

Newc

[dinkyjacksonman]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Changing the headstock reversed It does take extra work to do the job when all the regular lineup guitars are set for regular headstock.
And that will be a custom shop work... but hey, I want a reversed headstock Dinky with 22frets.
They don't even have one like that!
[img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Rocco Siffredi]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

As I understand how things work, yes.

[Tekky]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Yes. The production lines at Jackson/Charvel (or anywhere else actually) are geared to get guitars to their customers as fast as they can. Modifications of the process cost time. Therefore anything other than what they offer is a custom shop referral.

[tmdiamond]

Re: So if ALL I want different is a reverse head...

Robot,
I checked specifically on getting made an SL1 with a reverse head and, yes, you will pay out the ass for it. Fortunately, I found one elsewhere and didn't have to go that route.