How long does it take to process a CS quote?

[withmyshadow]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

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Even if they want to preserve the "exclusiveness" of the CS, its unacceptable to keep customers waiting this long for a product that takes no more than 1-2 months to build.

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I sortof agree with this part.
carvin is a good example. they don't offer any of the complicated options, like custom body shape, graphic, etc. in return, with CNC they build a bolton, neckthru or setin in 6 weeks, give or take.
on the other hand, I can understand why jackson does what it does. when you look at those custom shop pictures, you notice it doesn't look like a factory at all, like carvin's. it looks like work shop where they want to have fun doing their job, as oppose to building the same 3 or 4 models day in and day out with different finishes. I guess they don't schedule their work with custom orders. they schedule with what they want to do and blend custom orders into that schedule. that's what I would do.
bottem line is people should try to enjoy their job rather than do whatever it takes to make more money.

[withmyshadow]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

one more thing,
fixing the number of frets (22/24) for each model is a great way to simplify operation, i.e. body shaping and pickup/bridge routing can be done in one CNC run. same with necks. carvin, warmoth and musicman all build their parts on order. but you can't choose between 22/24.
a real custom shop might not want to "sellout" and do that.

[BYeh1]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

not an opinion, just speculation based on the evidence I've seen...

This, however, is my opinion which approaches fact:

If J/C were willing to hire and train more 10 highly-skilled luthiers and painters, plus the interns, data entry clerks and a customer relations manager, the wait time would be reduced dramatically, costly mistakes and miscommunications would be reduced, customers would be happier and buy more guitars (I presume yourself included?), and they could make and sell a lot more CS guitars (and generate more profits).

Getting the work order right should be done in a matter of days, not weeks, and certainly not months. And I don't buy the argument of limiting CS supply to keep prices and margins high, there's plenty of pent-up demand in a 12-18 month backlog, unbelievably strong brand equity with customers (witness the daily J/C related traffic on this website and Ebay alone), and look at how successfully PRS has managed the price/demand curve in their expansion.

12-18 months to build and deliver a guitar when Carvin and Warmoth can produce in 2 months is unacceptable. Would you hire a builder if he took 6-9 years to build your house if others could do it in 1 year?

Bottom-line opinion:
J/C CS management has been spoiled by the devotion of its hardcore fans, they're getting away with it now because times are good, but this lack of management discipline is how companies get into trouble when the tide turns. This 80s metal guitar revival isn't going to last forever, and J/C management needs to realize they're missing an opportunity to improve their business and strike while the iron's hot. What are they waiting for before they hire more people, 24 month backlogs???

BTW, if the company is for sale, I'm an interested buyer.

[BYeh1]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

That may be true from the employee's perspective, but I'm pretty sure as customers we'd all be happier if we could order and receive CS guitars in 3-4 months instead of 12-18 months, and I'm absolutely sure the investors who own the company didn't invest in J/C so that they could maximize employee happiness without regard for profits.

[shreddermon]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

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Does this have the special feature that we discussed at NAMM? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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They both do. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

As to build times... Guys, it's been about a year wait since the 80s. Seriously. Get over it. I'd much rather them take their time, and have the guitar built right. And, no, I do NOT want to see J/C become more like Carvin. [img]/images/graemlins/refuse.gif[/img]

Is there room for improvement to build times? Sure, probably. But I would NOT want to see that happen if it means sacrificing quality or less available options.

IMHO, the paperwork part should be an easy fix, though. They should hire someone like Ron to take custom orders. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] He'll be sure to dot every "i" and cross every "t". [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[xenophobe]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

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12-18 months to build and deliver a guitar when Carvin and Warmoth can produce in 2 months is unacceptable. Would you hire a builder if he took 6-9 years to build your house if others could do it in 1 year?


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Carvin won't build you ANYTHING you want. Jackson will. Warmoth makes unfinished parts. Period. Comparing their lead times to Jackson is ignorant and misleading. Get quotes for custom builds from companies like BC Rich, ESP, McNaught, GMW, and average them out. Jackson isn't a stellar performer, but to say their wait times isn't average for this industry is a joke.

I agree the lead time should be more in the 6-9 month region, but I do not want a bunch of entry level luthiers making my custom order.

I WILL wait for Pablo or Mike to have the time to build my guitar right.

[Jack Napalm]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

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I agree the lead time should be more in the 6-9 month region, but I do not want a bunch of entry level luthiers making my custom order.

I WILL wait for Pablo or Mike to have the time to build my guitar right.

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+1

Hiring a bunch of people doesn't necessarily mean things will be faster and better. If you don't have someone that can coordinate all those people into a cohesive unit your in trouble.

[~K~]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

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If J/C were willing to hire and train more 10 highly-skilled luthiers and painters, plus the interns, data entry clerks and a customer relations manager, the wait time would be reduced dramatically, costly mistakes and miscommunications would be reduced, customers would be happier and buy more guitars (I presume yourself included?), and they could make and sell a lot more CS guitars (and generate more profits).


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More personal means more overhead= higher prices .. everyone complains as it is ..

[withmyshadow]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

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Carvin won't build you ANYTHING you want. Jackson will. Warmoth makes unfinished parts. Period. Comparing their lead times to Jackson is ignorant and misleading. Get quotes for custom builds from companies like BC Rich, ESP, McNaught, GMW, and average them out. Jackson isn't a stellar performer, but to say their wait times isn't average for this industry is a joke.

I agree the lead time should be more in the 6-9 month region, but I do not want a bunch of entry level luthiers making my custom order.

I WILL wait for Pablo or Mike to have the time to build my guitar right.

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I think the range of options offered by jackson is great. but not every custom order is THAT out of the ordinary. an order without any complicated cosmetic features, i.e. body shape, custom graphics and custom inlays, shouldn't take take nearly as long.
here's an idea, how about all usa select models with different wood, pickups/bridge, choice of 22/24 and std finishes and inlays for 6 months.
anything more than that stays as it is?

[eddyrox]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

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I submitted two custom orders on the first day of NAMM. The first one went through a couple of revisions already, but is basically done now. Still waiting on a final work order for it, though.

And I just received a first cut at a spec sheet and price quote on the second custom order today. It needed some corrections, so there will be at least one more version before being signed off. And several prior custom orders have taken similar turnaround times.

I love ordering custom shop Jacksons and Charvels. But I must admit that I find the process of just getting your order placed is the least pleasant part of the whole experience.

Anyway, I'm probably whining too much. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Otherwise, I highly recommend it. There's nothing quite like having your dream guitar built to your exact wants & needs. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

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Pat, I'm right behind ya.

And as a veteran of 12 Andersons and Suhrs, I've gone through the "design" and "build" waiting period (everything Tom and John do are basically custom options).

That said, I am in the process of submitting my first Jackson CS order. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] It's been an iterative process as everyone's noted here. BUT, as the dealer's said, "leave NOTHING to chance. If you don't articulate what you want in egregious detail, the CS shop will revert to standard spec, which may or may not be what YOU want." So, I'm on "clarification" number 3 w/ Mike Kotzen, and timing's been slow. But, I understand it's one guy and I want it right.

The issue I've been dealing with is whether or not the dealers are jacking up the price or whether the quote's directly from Kotzen. With a Charvel custom, at least you can price it from the price list. With Jackson, it's a mystery. Let me know your thoughts! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
thanks.
mike.

[BYeh1]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

Don't know how the custom shop is currently staffed, and obviously Pablo and Mike are good at what they do, but they aren't the only two skilled luthiers in this country who know how to build great guitars.

Furthermore, with the right staffing its theoretically possible to get the lead times down to 2 months without sacrificing quality, its just a matter of taking the risk to commit the resources.

[BYeh1]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

Warmoth will make finished, custom necks & bodies in 7 weeks. Excluding custom paint jobs and certain neck-thru combinations, the difference between finished parts and a finished guitar is at most one full day of assembly & test, probably less. Its not exactly the same, but a highly relevant benchmark for comparison. You can probably explain away the lead time differences with an extra month or two for custom paint and body/neck assemblies, but that gets you to 4 months at worst, vs the 12-18 months currently required.

Your benchmarking to other custom shops is flawed in that all those other custom shops are also underoptimizing. In managing a business, you should compare performance to leaders in industry, not laggards (from a production standpoint), i.e., aim to beat industry-best Warmoth timelines, not everyone else's. Those other guys all have the same problems: small, undercapitalized and can't afford to take the risk of hiring to grow. Capital is not a problem at FMIC, just poor/lazy management in my opinion.

If FMIC were aggressive about it, J/C CS could eat all those other guys lunches pretty quickly.

[Chrisb]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

So everyone is underoptimizing because they aren't doing it the way you think is best? Hate to break it to you, chances are you don't know everything about the business. Fact is hiring all these people would cause the prices to inflate, Jacksons is cheaper than most custom shops keep in mind. It would also mean greater chance of issues with customs, quality would go down. In short its not worth it. Time can be cut surely, and Jackson is working on that but people actually in the industry would tell you that anything less than 6-8 months is wishful thinking.

[BYeh1]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

Agreed on hiring Ron, that's a complete no-brainer.

I'm highly confident Ron or any other of the senior guys on JCF would get CS orders done correctly in a matter of days, not months. Ignoring the obvious bottlenecks in production, cutting 2 months out of lead times means an additional 16.7% (2/12) sales capacity. If that means just an additional 30 CS guitars per year, at $2500 to J/C per CS guitar, that's $75,000 in additional sales per year.

Its a slam-dunk for Ron to easily pay for himself with just new CS orders, not to mention the value he'd bring in improving dealer channel relationships, but more importantly, improving the customer's experience by helping reduce the biggest complaint of every actual and lost CS customer.

Aside from that easy fix, its even more critical to hire additional seasoned & experienced luthiers (they do exist).

[bibz]

Re: How long does it take to process a CS quote?

I think BYeh1 should go work for ESP. Your talking business management instead of guitars man. Where will 'optimization' be when your piece of wood is chosen? I want it selected by hand, by a jackson master luthier, not some 'wait time decreasing' ring in. A bunch of whoevers making custom shops would not make them a true jackson/charvel custom shop guitar. If you cant wait for the end result, you wont get it. Go play warmoth, go play ltd's, you wont get anywhere near the guitar a cs is. It doesn't take a genious to realise we are all here because of the quality work they have maintained throughout the fads, owners, and competition changes.
As had been said, making them quicker means giving the people less options. And turning down people can be a stupid, stupid mistake. Go ask Dean about Randy...