Is this an '87?

[rjohnstone]

No, before 1986, all Jacksons were neck-thru, and all bolt-ons were Charvels (with very few exceptions of a couple of neck-thru Charvels).

There were a few early Jackson labled bolt-ons with Charvel plates as well.

[Erez]

Well I guess I'll wait till it arrives and check everything then..
Thanks for the help

[xenophobe]

There were a few early Jackson labled bolt-ons with Charvel plates as well.

Perhaps you're thinking of the last of the Jacksons built in Glendora. The last 30-40 or so Jackson bolt-ons shipped in 1986 had Charvel SD plates because the Charvel line was moving to imports and they wanted to use up the last of those Charvel USA plates.... and the fact the Jackson plates were probably already packed up.

Other than those, I have never seen a Jackson bolt on with a Charvel five digit serial or 4 digit plate in the 1xxx range that was legit.

[len]

here is a link to Jim Shines Jackson Bolt On section of usajacksonguitars.com
http://zeus.lunarpages.com/~jimshi2/..._on_models.htm

it is chock full of facts and ...oddities
besides a pretty good history of my 1008 ....check out #5091
in marker is

B.S. (bob smith) 7-11-1986

notice also the SG 36 tuners which are circa 1986 ...

now ....there is this gem


which is making its way to wilmington
serial # 5115
1986 "tm headstock" ,SD route,sg36 tuners and about 10 days and 24 guitars later there is bob smith again


i think this puts a new spin on the serial number debate

[xenophobe]

here is a link to Jim Shines Jackson Bolt On section of usajacksonguitars.com
http://zeus.lunarpages.com/~jimshi2/USAjacksons/boltons/bolt_on_models.htm

i think this puts a new spin on the serial number debate

Nothing on Jim's site contradicts what I've said above...

[xenophobe]

There were a few early Jackson labled bolt-ons with Charvel plates as well.

Oh, I understand what you're saying now...

Yes, all of the Jacksons with Charvel plates are early Jackson bolt ons, but they were the last ones to leave the factory before it closed. Jackson bolt-ons with Jackson San Dimas plates numbered >1506 are earlier. The Charvel plates were put on bolt-on Jacksons in the last few weeks of production before the Glendora shop closed, with 1505 Jackson SD plates having been issued BEFORE the Jacksons with Charvel SD plates.

[len]

Nothing on Jim's site contradicts what I've said above...

i agree 100%
i just found it interesting that 2 guitars with serials in the 5000's,have all the little features that suggest >1506

[rjohnstone]

Oh, I understand what you're saying now...

Yes, all of the Jacksons with Charvel plates are early Jackson bolt ons, but they were the last ones to leave the factory before it closed. Jackson bolt-ons with Jackson San Dimas plates numbered >1506 are earlier. The Charvel plates were put on bolt-on Jacksons in the last few weeks of production before the Glendora shop closed, with 1505 Jackson SD plates having been issued BEFORE the Jacksons with Charvel SD plates.

The only reason I even remember it was something I saw on Jacksonmesuem.com.
Before the site went down, I remember seeing pics of the some TM logo'd Jacksons with Charvel plates.

[dg]

Those guitars sparked some very entertaining debates on Charvel Central. Some people are adamant that they are Charvels and that the neck plate trumps the logo on the headstock. I think the reasoning is that they have a Charvel serial # and that makes them Charvels no matter what. I guess the work order might settle the issue for each guitar.

[diablomozart]

want a cute spin on the serial number debate?...my black and red crackle soloist has a serial number that dates it to 1989...yet it has an 80% logo and a san dimas electronics cavity route...talk about a head scratcher there...d.m.

[xenophobe]

Those guitars sparked some very entertaining debates on Charvel Central. Some people are adamant that they are Charvels and that the neck plate trumps the logo on the headstock. I think the reasoning is that they have a Charvel serial # and that makes them Charvels no matter what. I guess the work order might settle the issue for each guitar.

See, I've always held that they were Jacksons. Most of these "Charvels" that were single hum also had a tone knob... anyone that knows the differences between the one hum Jackson and Charvels at the time knows that most Charvels would not have the tone knob, and most Jacksons would. Of course there are examples that you can find that contradict this (as just about everything does in the C/J world).

If it left the Glendora factory with a Jackson logo'd neck and was one one of the last ones out of the shop, I say they all received Charvel USA plates so they wouldn't have to throw them away when the Charvel line was moved to Japan and the USA factory moved to Ontario. The Charvel USA plates would be scrapped, so they used as many as they could in the last days... And the possibility exists that the large bulk of Jackson USA plates (over 5000 of them) had already been packed up and moved.

If that's indeed the case, they are factory 'parts' guitars... which would be no different than a Suburban recieving both GMC and Chevy logos and emblems... it doesn't really change what the guitar is, a true San Dimas guitar... but calling it either a Charvel or Jackson isn't the case, it's really both (as a Jackson logo'd neck would have been built for a Jackson branded guitar).

[mm2002]

See, I've always held that they were Jacksons. Most of these "Charvels" that were single hum also had a tone knob... anyone that knows the differences between the one hum Jackson and Charvels at the time knows that most Charvels would not have the tone knob, and most Jacksons would. Of course there are examples that you can find that contradict this (as just about everything does in the C/J world).

If it left the Glendora factory with a Jackson logo'd neck and was one one of the last ones out of the shop, I say they all received Charvel USA plates so they wouldn't have to throw them away when the Charvel line was moved to Japan and the USA factory moved to Ontario. The Charvel USA plates would be scrapped, so they used as many as they could in the last days... And the possibility exists that the large bulk of Jackson USA plates (over 5000 of them) had already been packed up and moved.

If that's indeed the case, they are factory 'parts' guitars... which would be no different than a Suburban recieving both GMC and Chevy logos and emblems... it doesn't really change what the guitar is, a true San Dimas guitar... but calling it either a Charvel or Jackson isn't the case, it's really both (as a Jackson logo'd neck would have been built for a Jackson branded guitar).

Great analogy about the Chevy/GMC logo thing. I agree 100%

[bratfink]

And this is why I look at all these claimed 'San Dimas' bolt on guitars on Ebay and walk away.

I just cannot tell which is a fake and which is an original.

Is there a definitive run down on what to look for any where on this site?

[len]

[QUOTE][Is there a definitive run down on what to look for any where on this site?/QUOTE]

no.
it has been debated many times

JMHO
tell tell san dimas signs

1) plate serial #'s 1001 -1505
2)"tm" logo on the headstock
3)san dimas style control cavity route ...but this is not always the case
4)heres one i noticed recently ...
a regular trussrod cover(not arrowhead) under the under the lock nut(kahler)
5)sg style tuners (non 45 degree offset)
6)dates on the neck pocket

i am sure there are more and not sure if these are 100% accurate..
sure makes for good discussion

[Bert]

i think this puts a new spin on the serial number debate

No it doesn't, it's called a "non matching plate". I also bought a Jackson very similar to that one with a serial number also in th 5xxx range, same transitional style tuners, control plate cover, logo, everything... definitely all '86 parts. But when I had the Jackson custom shop look up the plate, it did not match the guitar. (For example, the plate was for a guitar with a JT-6 trem, mine had a Kahler.)

I've seen several other 5xxx plated Jacksons with '86 parts come up on e-bay. I've always been suspicious someone had a leftover batch of '86 parts that they assembled with these later plates. Still great guitars, but I doubt any of those guitars match the official log books.