Quality of build

[neilli]

No they won't.

J/C now won't do artist replicas either, so when you add that to body shapes, headstock shapes and copyrighted graphics, that moves us quite a long way from 'building anything you want'.

[shredmonster]

Yes, when you order a CS guitar you can get a tone turd. Best construction and materials don't automatically assure 100% success in terms of tone and playability.
Just like regular production, not-super-high-end guitars are not automatically lemons.

I've had a very expensive CS guitar, which looked great and was impeccably built, which had several structural dead spots and simply didn't have any soul, tone-wise.
I've also had, actually I still own, a factory guitar, made overseas, which looks boring and cheap, yet it plays and sounds fantastic, and it's a keeper.

Bottom line, if what you're looking for is tone and playability, then play first the guitar you will choose, possibly through your own rig, there is no other option.

With that rationale you would put the whole custom guitar industry out of business. Not that your points are not valid - they all are.

But you also have to look at the probability - and probability is that you will get a better guitar if you order custom.

There is no way to play a custom guitar until you get it in your hands. We all know 2 guitars built to the same specs can or will sound somewhat different.

[mm2002]

Every CS Jackson axe I've played has been a great instrument, but the reasons I'll probably never order one myself are the price and wait time. If I want a Custom axe built to MY specs, I'll order the body and neck built the way I want them, and assemble/finish it myself. The last one I did this way is by far the best playing axe I own, and at a fraction of the cost and wait time of a CS ordered axe. Of course the drawbacks are the lack of the brand name, and graphic options, but neither of those matter to me anyway on an axe that's a player.

[charvel750]

All of my Customs so far have been outstanding in every regard.



*offtopic*

I don´t consider Carvin a "Custom Shop" in any sense of the word. You get predefined choices from which to choose a customIZED version of one of their designs, but you are totally SOL if you want ANYTHING they don´t already offer. There´s nothing custom about that IMO. "CUstom" denotes something that can be done specifically to order, speced 100% by the customer. Carvin may leave that Impression, but again as soon as you want something even minutely different such as a Kahler, or other pickups, or a different neck profile, they will balk.

Referring to Carvin as a "Custom Shop" is nothing but an insult to all of the people and companies worldwide that actually DO custom work. It´s like saying a stock Triumph is a "Custom bike" because it was painted black. THen look at the stuff 357 does and tell me who really makes "custom" bikes. Exact same thing, different industry

*return to regularly scheduled programming*

Nice rant, from someone who has no idea what Carvin can actually do. I own a Raven Storm (Carvin endorser, Google him) neck through Tele. VERY different from any of their "regular" creations. Different neck profile, headstock, body woods, neck wood, scalloped frets (is that even a Carvin "option?!"), Duncan pickups, etc. But custom body shapes can be done, as well as graphics. You just have to talk to them. They are actually more "Custom" than Jackson, who won't do a lot of things we once considered true Custom Shop creations.

[Zerberus]

Sorry, I've got to disagree with you. Have you actually contacted Carvin yourself for a custom instrument? They will do considerably more than is available on their web site once you actually talk with them.

I used to be a dealer (in europe they´re not "factory direct"). While there are "more" options, all of my points stand wholly untouched.

They have a bunch of limitations of course. They don't do custom body shapes or crazy inlays or whatever. Jackson/Charvel has plenty of limitations too.

No custom shapes, no custom inlays, no custom graphics, no PU selection outside the Carvin line (so for ex. P-90s and Mini-humbuckers are a complete "no go"), very VERY few custom woods compared even to Warmoth´s or USACG´s paltry selection, no custom neck profiling (one of the most important things about a custom guitar)..... There´s more, should I continue?

They´re a IMO "Neckthru Warmoth" at best with regards to custom options. Warmoth s often touted as the "poor man´s custom shop", because they offer the most common options at a budget price. But I´d be much faster to apply that title to Warmoth than to Carvin.

However, Carvin offers the sorts of customizations that most customers want anyhow. They provide an enormous number of options on their guitars from finishes to bridges to electronics to woods. And they do it for a far more reasonable price than Jackson/Charvel. And they deliver much, much, much, much quicker.

The options they offer may be "what most customers want", but offering a car with or without A/C and an Manual transmission does not make it a custom vehicle, either.

Their instruments are extremely well made - you can not like them for whatever reason but the quality is all there.

You´re putting words into my mouth to serve your own argument, and I´d appreciate if you´d stop. I said NOTHING about Carvin´s quality, positive nor negative. Alone the fact that I was a dealer should be more than enough endorsement for their quality, as I refuse to sell crap.


That said, as a dealer I HAVE had more customer satisfaction issues w/ Carvin regarding things such as ugly fretboards (someone @carvin doesn´t know what Fretboard stain is). None were major in the sense of structurally or tonally important, but I admittedly don´t care much for their vindictive customer service and the way distributor, dealer and customer got brushed off on a regular basis. And that´s why I dropped the line. Just like I don´t care for Dimarzio´s business practices and therefore neither carry the line, nor will I use them on a custom instrument unless supplied by the customer.

My Carvin Holdsworth is every bit as good as any Jackson I have in terms of build quality and fit and finish (actually my Carvin came in much better shape than a couple of my Jacksons).

We hear over and over how every USA Jackson/Charvel is basically a custom shop guitar because they're made by the same people. Yet if I want to have a pickup added/eliminated or something else pretty reasonable that requires just a little thought process you can't have that without going the "full blown" route.

People are always asking if they can get some seemingly simple options on standard models and are always told they need to order a custom shop guitar. So most people just settle for a standard model in the end because a custom shop Jackson costs a lot of fucking money.

So most people can't get a Jackson guitar that is customized for them. But most people can get a Carvin guitar that is customized exactly how they want it.

If people are happy with stock manufacturer options, all the more power to them. But customer satisfaction is not a guage of whether a company does true custom work or not.

And besides Ed Roman and ESP, who will build you anything you want? Gibson won't. Jackson won't. Fender won't. Hamer won't. Suhr won't. Anderson won't. etc.

No large manufacturer will for the reason that they´d be risking a lawsuit if someone got the impression that it was a production instrument. But I fail to see how that applies to the thousands of smaller luthiers that can and will build you whatever your heart desires

There are luthiers like Laz, Sully, and yours truly that can and will build you whatever you want (within reason). If what you want is a modded DC, fine, good for you. Just for the record: not everybody wants a DC, TL or CT, anjd that´s part of the main reason IMO that Carvins are not nearly as often seem as some try to imply. The DC having started out as an obvious Jackson ripoff probably didn´t help much either, as being a direct seller Carvin lacks a dealer network and with it the marketing tool necessary to dispel such a stigmata effectively within any reasonable time

Bottom line: choosing options from a list is not custom, it´s "customized".

Maybe it´s different in the states for some mysterious reason, but over here there are only 14 "non-brocure / I-net" options available, and it´s like pulling teeth to get them to do it. Of course I could place a 5$ phone call to get told to "ask the distributor", so that he can place the same phone call and get the usual "No, we won´t" on anything not listed (at least that was the status quo from 1996-2003), but IMO that´s a waste of time and money all around.

BTW, Wait times may also be significantly better in th US, but over here a black DC 127 with an M22SD /M22V combo and no frills also takes 9-10 months.

Any Joe: Thanks... I´m sorry that not being a US resident and having a slightly different set of circumstances to cope with (that you most obviously have no clue about) instantly makes me into a clueless basher.... I´m sorry we can´t all be in the US, and I apologize for forgetting it´s the only place in the world that matters out of the >200 coutries.

Jesus fucking Christ, is this the Carvin board all of a sudden? As soon as someone says something even remotely neutral, he´s a clueless asshole that should be run off the internet? Nobody even considers that Carvin may, just may, not be particularly interesten in non-NAFTA markets, and that therefore US experience may not apply everywhere.... But then again, that´s absolutely preposterous, right

[mm2002]

Quote Zerberus

Warmoth s often touted as the "poor man´s custom shop", because they offer the most common options at a budget price. But I´d be much faster to apply that title to Warmoth than to Carvin.

Regarding necks, I would personally apply that title to Carvin or Mighty Mite, before Warmoth. Anyone who's ever custom spec'd a neck from Warmoth knows that they are not marketing toward the "poor guy". A nice Warmoth neck can easily cost damn near as much as a complete import Jackson axe. I must also add that they are worth every damn penny! (oh, and yes, the import Jacksons are too!)

[Chrisb]

Well some people may have run into walls on how much Jackson was willing to go for a custom but they are still a custom shop and they will build you a custom guitar. There was only one thing they were not able to do for me which was to do Gold Mother of Pearl inlays and Logo. But as Zerb said ANY large manufactor will be restricted by supply. Boutique luthiers can and will build pretty much anything you can imagine. Yet still my Jackson is about as custom as they come, custom color, custom woods, custom wiring.

Seems that alot of this is degenerating into issues with Jackson or Carvin but thats not really what the original poster wanted to know.

Jackson has had its fair share of issues lately, with custom shop problems and what not, but the majority of people are more than satisfied I would wager. And every custom shop Charvel and Jackson I have played kicks the shit out of most any other guitar. So the quality matches the price.

Warmoth makes great stuff period but as Zerb said they aren't custom hardly at all. Aside from body design and a few other things there are some very hard limits to what you can get. They have a gazillion options so its close enough for most anyone unless you really want something outside the box. And of course..bolt on is their thing.

[hippietim]

Zerbeus - keep your panties on. Nobody bashed you. I certainly didn't. I just disagree with your assessment of Carvin. You being a dealer doesn't change my opinion of what you said one bit. Carvin may not be your idea of a custom shop, but to me they are.

Jackson/Charvel as a custom shop is much more limited than in the past for a lot of reasons. Legal seems to be the big one. But even in that realm there are things they won't do that they certainly should be able to do now. Such as make me a Tele. I asked JW if I could get one done and he said Fender had told him no but he said he'd check into it some more - he never got back to me so the answer must still be no.

Bottom line: most of the people I know want Jackson to offer what Carvin does - pick a different finish, bridge, etc. And to offer that at a reasonable price and deliver it in a reasonable time. Those sorts of requests have been made over and over and over again.

[YetAnotherOne]

I really hate to be negative about the situation as I've primarily played Jacksons for the last 20 years but welcome to the Fenderization of Jackson. Less and less options on even a full-on custom shop guitar, higher and higher prices, and spottier QC. In a way Fender is ruining Jackson in a manner very similar to the way CBS ruined Fender. You'd think they'd know better but alas ....

[Carbophos]

Jackson was already almost ruined by AKAI, when FMIC bought it out. What is real "fenderization" of Jackson is that being backed by FMIC marketing and distribution Jackson gained more demand. As long as CS or any mostly hand-built operation has its limits of production capacity more demand means higher pricing, longer lead time and other restrictions (don't forget CS makes USA Select as well)
And necessity of buildinging NAMM guitars twice a year obviously utilizes a lot of CS capacity.

[hippietim]

I really hate to be negative about the situation as I've primarily played Jacksons for the last 20 years but welcome to the Fenderization of Jackson. Less and less options on even a full-on custom shop guitar, higher and higher prices, and spottier QC. In a way Fender is ruining Jackson in a manner very similar to the way CBS ruined Fender. You'd think they'd know better but alas ....

I'm not sure about that one way or another. But if it is the case, it is odd because Fender is turning out some consistently fantastic guitars these days. They've improved Gretsch's as well - at least the ones I've played recently have all been fantastic. Squier's suck less than they used to. I'm not sure how the newer Tacoma stuff is - haven't had a chance to play any.