What is so 'bad' about modern USA Jacksons??

[Carbophos]

You guys can agree or disagree with this, but I'll tell you another reason why everything is going to crap in guitars these days. It's because the chain stores have taken over.

The chain stores and kids playing in the bedrooms were in 60's and 70's and 80's as well, but major brands were not targeting at them. If you read the interviews of guitar celebrities about their childhood, their first guitar used to be some Danelectro, Woolworth, some Jap "counterfeit" copy etc. And major brands were focusing at pro players (let's consider any player who takes playing and/or band thing seriously to be a pro). But since mid 80's the entire industry focus started to shift onto lower end.

[demmel80]

i believe tim retired.

Ohh he did? Little did I know... that's a loss for the company. Well, anyways he was working for JG during this FMIC-era... hope they have another GOOD fella taking care of CS and so on. Hope he enjoys his free time.

[demmel80]

You guys can agree or disagree with this, but I'll tell you another reason why everything is going to crap in guitars these days. It's because the chain stores have taken over. I won't bore you with my usual rant about Guitar Center, but I can remember a time when you had Mom-n-Pop music stores who actually had a clue about what they were selling. Back in the 80's in Austin, TX, I could walk into Guitar Resurrection, Strait Music, Danny's Guitars, South Austin Music, Ray Hennig's, MusicMakers, or any number of privately-owned music stores and they knew what they were doing. I'll guarantee you that whatever they had in the store, someone had plugged it in and checked it all out to learn about it. Therefore, they could demo the product and had a clue what they were talking about.

So how does this affect manufacturing quality? It's simple. Since practically the only game around is Guitar Center, Sam Ash, or something like that, they don't carry the high-end equipment. They just don't even bother stocking it because, hey, the bean counters say that Squier, Epiphone, and low-end Jacksons are the hot sellers. When the public at large shows a company that they'll buy shit, then shit they shall receive.

So pretend that you're a manufacturer for a second. Why put extreme quality into something if your major resellers refuse to even stock anything above the entry-level gear? It's just like when I practically stole that SL1 a couple of months ago; it had been hanging there brand new for two solid years with no bites and the guy was happy to unload it cheap just to get rid of it.

Don't get me wrong; I'm pretty happy overall with Jackson USA quality these days, but when all of your competition is also putting out mostly crap, it's not economically feasible to go with extreme quality if you can save a buck instead.

Yea man... I kinda agree with you on that. We have this huge pile of crap here in Europe too. Especially here in Scandinavia, f.ex. Luthman is importing Gibsons and stuff like that. They have NO CLUE about the importer's responsibility to check out the quality of the products before they ship out to retailers. Then no-one at retail shop knows how to fix or adjust the guitar, they just hang it on the wall and hope to cash with it at some point. Then a customer comes in, tests the "top-end" guitar and notices it's complete CRAP. It's not adjusted after a long shipping from the States to Europe and then from Central Europe to Finland for example...

Now, the customer makes a reclamation of that product to the retailer, retailer calls an importer who just says "we only import these... sell more you fuckers!" and then the manufacturer has no clue that the importer and retailer are really making things worse for the manufacturer. I bet if Gibson knew all the shit Luthman Scandinavia is doing, they would end the deal rightaway. The thing is that now customers are complaining straight to Gibson.

This is just an example. Jackson USA Guitars aren't sold brand new here in Finland. They cost like 3000 euros (around 3000-4000 USD) and no-one wants to pay that price for them. They can get it cheaper from Matt's or from Central Europe. Therefore you don't see Jackson USA axes hanging around finnish guitar stores. Thanks to Fender Scandinavia and their sole stupidity trying to cash out. Things backfired nicely.

I still think that Jackson Guitars have their own quality standards they don't want to risk. One bad word can start a rumble and the "hard work to build up the good image on a brand" isn't something you want to risk every day. Therefore I think that Jackson USA and CS keeps the quality top-notch, but of course there might be one or two mistakes or so. Regular people working you know...

It's a shame that these big chains ruin the image.

[Dave L]

Well, I´ve spent quality time with too few american J/C´s to be able to make an educated estimate, maybe 20 all in all, but I haven´t noticed any discernible differences in the overall quality over the different eras. More important is that they have all been very, very good!

But I think you´d have to handle literally hundreds of them to be able to reach any statistically significant conclusions... wood is a living thing, and so are people, so my guess is that the quality varies more from piece to piece than era to era.

[VitaminG]

This is just an example. Jackson USA Guitars aren't sold brand new here in Finland. They cost like 3000 euros (around 3000-4000 USD) and no-one wants to pay that price for them. They can get it cheaper from Matt's or from Central Europe. Therefore you don't see Jackson USA axes hanging around finnish guitar stores. Thanks to Fender Scandinavia and their sole stupidity trying to cash out. Things backfired nicely.

I don't know what distribution is like in Scandinavia, but I do know that since Fender have taken over, stores have started carrying Jackson over here again after dropping off severely during the last years under AMIC. Also, the prices have reduced significantly too.

6 years ago, you would pay AU$1600 for a brand new KE3. These days, you can get a new KE3 for $1095 WITH Seymour Duncans. And I can go to several stores to find them. A new DK2 will cost you about AU$1200. Signature bolt ons like the COW run at about $1600 or so. So all these years later, a signature model costs about as much as a standard import Kelly (with Duncan Designed p/us) used to.

You very rarely see US Jacksons in the stores, but then, that hasn't really changed since pre-Fender. But what has changed is that the RRP dropped by about $1000 with Fender's taking over (at least, last time I checked - I'm sure it has increased again with Jackson's general price rise)

[Carbophos]

the importer's responsibility to check out the quality of the products before they ship out to retailers. .

Dude, do you know what is a distributor's stock? A huge dusty hangar with ceiling-high piles of boxes. Distributor is just the box-mover who takes on the logisitics and marketing for the certain territory.
The only responisbility of a distributor is to handle service for servicable products and replacement/money back for non-serivcable products. And to send claims to the vendor in each case, pushing him to improve QC.

Making pre-sale check and the adjustment is totally up to the retailer. Because anyway enviroment in the store and on stock is different.

[Carbophos]

Regarding overall situation with Jackson in Europe, I'd say that FMIC are not capable to provide stock supply because USA takes it all. And it's a full circle thing. Insufficient supply in Europe leads to prices rising and non-availability. This makes European customers look for the ways to order from US directly. This increases the demand in USA, which makes supply for Europe even less. And so on, so far. At the same time it's OK with supply of Fender products. At least OK enough for the most customers not to bother with all the risks and incoveniences of ordering overseas.

[PowerTube]

The chain stores and kids playing in the bedrooms were in 60's and 70's and 80's as well, but major brands were not targeting at them. If you read the interviews of guitar celebrities about their childhood, their first guitar used to be some Danelectro, Woolworth, some Jap "counterfeit" copy etc. And major brands were focusing at pro players (let's consider any player who takes playing and/or band thing seriously to be a pro). But since mid 80's the entire industry focus started to shift onto lower end.

Exactly. Now any kid can walk into Guitar Center and go, "Look, Dad! A real Epiphone for only $199.99!" I think the bean counters and the marketers figured out some years ago that they can use the good name of a product to sell cheap crap to people who don't know any better. I think they've also figured out that most kids want to play guitar because it's "cool" and "the girls like it," so they market cheap crap to them while ignoring the people who want the real thing. And besides, most of those guitars sold to kids will wind up hanging in the local pawn shop anyway.

[Mario8672]

Exactly. Now any kid can walk into Guitar Center and go, "Look, Dad! A real Epiphone for only $199.99!" I think the bean counters and the marketers figured out some years ago that they can use the good name of a product to sell cheap crap to people who don't know any better. I think they've also figured out that most kids want to play guitar because it's "cool" and "the girls like it," so they market cheap crap to them while ignoring the people who want the real thing. And besides, most of those guitars sold to kids will wind up hanging in the local pawn shop anyway.

As a guitar teach., I see examples of this every week. (especially with squiers and 'starter pack' guitars.)

[wilkinsi]

6 years ago, you would pay AU$1600 for a brand new KE3. These days, you can get a new KE3 for $1095 WITH Seymour Duncans. And I can go to several stores to find them. A new DK2 will cost you about AU$1200. Signature bolt ons like the COW run at about $1600 or so. So all these years later, a signature model costs about as much as a standard import Kelly (with Duncan Designed p/us) used to.

You very rarely see US Jacksons in the stores, but then, that hasn't really changed since pre-Fender. But what has changed is that the RRP dropped by about $1000 with Fender's taking over (at least, last time I checked - I'm sure it has increased again with Jackson's general price rise)

Whoa! I'm starting to remember years ago when it used to cost £500 for a DXMG in the UK. Now you can get one for £320-£350 (...or £400 if it's a crappy shop in the middle of nowhere).

[diablomozart]

There are good old ones, and bad old ones.

There are good new ones, and bad new ones.

Anyone who says otherwise is just pumping the value of their "collectible" and not a real guitarist.

absolutely true...i have had some dogs from the san dimas era...some from the ontario era...truth be told i tend to really go for soloists from 87-90 even if i have to have the locking nut and floyd replaced...dont think the qualioty was any better then than now...i just like the neck shape they had during that time...d.m.

[atarilovesyou]

The thing about low price guitars that people don't realize is this...just imagine how easy it is for beginners to get into guitar with a FAR better quality axe at LESS money nowadays!

I know that there's more money to make in the mass market guitars, that is, lower price and higher turnover.

But for a few measly hundred you get a GREAT guitar compared to even 10 years ago. I guess that sucks for the higher quality buyer, as it changes the marketing focus of a company, but in the end it's better for guitarists worldwide....one would think, anyway.

[Dave L]

True. I started out back in... 1994, I believe, and even though there were good beginner´s guitars to be had back then it was nothing compared to the surprisingly high-quality stuff you can find for the same little money today. Heck, I would´ve loved to have had a MusicYo-Kramer or an OLP or something like that when I was a kid.

[PowerTube]

The thing about low price guitars that people don't realize is this...just imagine how easy it is for beginners to get into guitar with a FAR better quality axe at LESS money nowadays!

I totally agree. Take the Squier Stagemaster, for example; neck-thru, humbuckers, locking trem, all for what? $300.00 or less? Or the MusicYo Kramers. They're supposed to be amazing for the money.

So I agree that we're in a much better era for beginners than 20 years ago. Back then the entry level guitars were names like Hondo, Series 10, and the like.

It just sucks that a lot of manufacturers and stores seem to think that entry-level is all anyone wants.

[NextInLine]

It just sucks that a lot of manufacturers and stores seem to think that entry-level is all anyone wants.

It's just about peoples approach to guitar imo. 99 out of every 100 guitar related videos you watch on youtube are shredders with no sense That's also the situation about peoples approach to guitar as an industry product..

But this is not one reason for Jackson to produce shitty high end guitars. I agree that there has always been good and bad ones but the situation the guitar market is in should be tempting for Jackson to increase their quality standards.

Nearly %50 in this thread is stating that everything is going down in quality, so why not produce all perfect guitars and get those lots of money you're asking for them from many more people who are looking for high quality instruments?

I don't believe it's that hard for the Jackson custom shop to double check everything they do. I can inspect a guitar in 5 minutes completely.

And the first thing I'd do would be to find the guy who drills the holes for the floyd posts, fire him and find someone who can actually SEE