Jacksons as Fender copies

[guitarnut1980]

i've read over the board that jackson has been the biggest culprit of all the fender copycats......correction, the original Charvels were Fender ripoffs, the first Jackson, and im sure all Jackson buffs know this was the Randy Rhodes, or the Concord as it would have been call if he had not have died, and the soloist was similar to a fender but not completely, when Grover purchased Charvel in the mid 80's the guitars got more stramlined and less Fenderish,even fender had the model "The Strat" in the late 80's which Greg Howe used for years which were cleary replicas of dinky style guitars, Just as ESP and Ibanez and all others rushed to create3/4 sized Soloist style guitars, maybe rg's and mirage ring a bell, plus Kramers were also a big culprit of copycats, all the late 80's Pacer's were Dinky ripoffs and the stagemasters were soloist archtop ripoffs, ESP is another funny story, 87 and 88 they had Jackson Style head stocks, so I think it's safe to say that ESP is the biggest culprit of ripoff companys even just a couple years ago Fender had to sue their asses off again for using the term Relic for one of their guitars, common people get creative, its common knowlage that both ESP and Ibanez started off as Gibson/Fender clones, so i'll take my Jackson thanks!

[Jack The Riffer]

You have committed the ultimate sacriledge of misspelling Rhoads. Nice use of commas but a period here and there wouldn't hurt.

[AK47]

You got alot of your information through second hand sources I see. You got some of the stuff kind of close.

ESP was never sued by Fender just a ceise and desist order over the explorer models and the "Relic" phrase.

I have Kirk Hammet's first ESP with a Jackson headstock. They stopped using those in 1990. No lawsuit they just started using their own design. You can still order them from Japan with Jackson headstocks.

Wayne Charvel was long gone by the mid 80's. Grover and Charvel were filling a need that Fender could not or was not willing to fill during this time frame.

Grover Jackson was an innovator when he designed the soloist body. To this day it is still one of the easiest playing guitars from an ergonomic stand point.

Every guitar company was pretty much guilty of copying or what I like to say "influenced" by the Gibson and Fender guitars during the 80's metal guitar era.

It speaks volumes when someone can make a copy of anothers product built it better and charge more while outselling the original.

[guitarnut1980]

i thought part of the story went Kirk liked the jackson guitar headstock shaped but the was some kind of legal action brought against ESP and therefor the Jackson headstocks disappeared, but can you not also get guitars with Fender and Gibson headstocks in Japan so i guess our copyright laws must not apply over there oh by the way AK47 you have any pics of the early kh guitar i would love to check them out

[DonP]

You must have big lungs to talk in such long sentances. It hurts my head to read

[Brooke]

This thread could get very interesting.

[guitarnut1980]

thanks

You must have big lungs to talk in such long sentances. It hurts my head to read

geeze thanks, they are strong

[AK47]

i thought part of the story went Kirk liked the jackson guitar headstock shaped but the was some kind of legal action brought against ESP and therefor the Jackson headstocks disappeared, but can you not also get guitars with Fender and Gibson headstocks in Japan so i guess our copyright laws must not apply over there oh by the way AK47 you have any pics of the early kh guitar i would love to check them out

I attached the original ad. I have the pics up in an old thread somewhere on this forum. I am not in the mood and too lazy to pull the guitar out of its hiding spot for more pics.

No there was no lawsuit ever against ESP by either Jackson,Fender or Gibson.

[Newc]

There's a difference between "ripoff" and "variation". Tokai made ripoffs, Charvel made variations.

Most of the Charvel Strat-shapes were not top-routed like Fender Strats, and Fender did not deviate from their classic design of 3-singles on a pickguard and a 6-screw non-locking trem or hardtail until the mid-80s, and only then as a direct response to the popularity of Charvels (The Strat and/or the "Heavy Metal" Strat).

But thanks for trying to perpetuate bad information, anyway.

[Musician78]

I have Kirk Hammet's first ESP with a Jackson headstock.

You have his actual guitar? Or a production copy?

[guitarnut1980]

well

There's a difference between "ripoff" and "variation". Tokai made ripoffs, Charvel made variations.

Most of the Charvel Strat-shapes were not top-routed like Fender Strats, and Fender did not deviate from their classic design of 3-singles on a pickguard and a 6-screw non-locking trem or hardtail until the mid-80s, and only then as a direct response to the popularity of Charvels (The Strat and/or the "Heavy Metal" Strat).

But thanks for trying to perpetuate bad information, anyway.

i am partial to both Charvel and Jackson guitars, so if so why is it that Charvel is constantly called a Fender ripoff if even the earliest guitars were built differently, with the only similarity being the headstock, plus the quality was apparently loads better and they cost less at that time(than Fenders) if im not mistaken. sorry if any bad information was passed i'm only going by what i know

[shreddermon]

If they were just copies of Fender designs, why did FMIC decide to buy J/C?

'nuff said.

[John C]

I just wanted to add to what others posted that Wayne Charvel actually sold out to Grover Jackson by the end of 1978.

The movement away from "traditional" strat-type bodies for Charvel/Jackson was probably started with the Soloist, and then the "downsized" or "Dinkey" body began to be used on the bolt-necks as the 1980s progressed.

[toejam]

The movement away from "traditional" strat-type bodies for Charvel/Jackson was probably started with the Soloist, and then the "downsized" or "Dinkey" body began to be used on the bolt-necks as the 1980s progressed.

The Soloist body is the same size as the Dinky, and both are 7/8" the size of a standard Strat body. Dinky = bolt-on. Soloist = neck-thru.

[JACKS0NESP]

^except the soloist is thinner than the dinky, correct?