UPS Destroyed My Rhoads

[chef_jackson]

Bayrocker, I am very sure that Jackson is going to take great care when packaging a $2500 guitar. It would make no sense for them to package something for shipping to only have to deal with damages over and over again. I checked with my dealer and the guitar should have been able to been shipped by way of Afghanistan. I know of nothing that could pierce the amount of packaging and a hard shell case in the exact shape as a forklift fork and I am quite sure that if Jackson was responsible they wouldn't have shipped only to end up trying to fight UPS for insurance money...your theory sounds like a losing proposition to a company as large as Jackson and ultimitely Fender. And by the way I have a very close friend that ran a forklift for UPS at one of their major hubs...I could care less who's at fault at this point I just want my guitar.

[roodyrocker]

Bayrocker, I'm not saying its always the driver's fault, In fact I've been there to recieve some packages and the driver's for both UPS and Fedex are usually very nice and cordial and seem to handle the packages just fine. However, what goes on to the point thise packages are on the local trucks I have no idea. What I do know is that when you puncture TWO road cases in a row something is not right. As for the guitar case damages, sometimes you can see there is a difference between something that got a bit rattled over 5000 miles with 5000 other packages and something that took a sudden big hit. I will grant you that many people pack improperly but lately its become routine for the shipper's to just deny claims based on "improper packaging". UPS tried telling my friend that in order to deny the claim when they punctured the well packed road case brand new from the manufacturer. And btw, not everyone at UPS and Fedex is a moron ape, I do not agree with that. But lets face it when it comes to shipping musical gear, you probably think the same thing when its shipped to you: is going to make it here alright or in pieces?
I have pictures of stuff that arrived to me damaged due to improper packing and others cause UPS/Fedex simply treated the package like a soccer ball getting kicked around. Take your pick

[wilkinsi]

I've had 2 guitars shipped to me over the pond via USPS. They've damaged both cases. Both boxes were filled with polystyrene sheets or peanuts. I used DHL to get a Dinky to Scotland, and went overkill on the packing. Had I used Parcelforce (the post office's courior), it would've been 30% more expensive and they've have beaten it up. It annoys the fuck outta me how UK couriors (public or private) won't insure guitars past the value of £150.

[BayRocker]

Guess I stepped in it...

I actually agree with all of you on the mistreatment of packages. It is not an environment for such fragile items. But Jackson and other shippers insist on shipping them in this environment. Nobody forced them to ship UPS. Why do they...cost. They could ship each guitar by a carrier that would hand carry their item, but would you pay that price...not likely. When you buy a Ford, do you expect the handbuilt quality of a Ferrari? These companies have determined that UPS or Fed Ex or whoever is their best option. If every guitar Jackson shipped was damaged, would the continue to use UPS...no. So obviously this is not the norm, but an occasional occurrence. Once again...pack accordingly!

With all due respect, do not come on here and try to pretend that UPS handles packages with any sense of respect to what is in the box. Some of us have friends who have worked the docks at UPS. We have been told the horror stories of how they were forced to load trucks so fast that they had to throw and drop stuff as they were loading just to keep up with a shouting supervisor.

So, I, a person who has worked for UPS for the past 23 years cannot come on here and make an argument, but you, a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy can....nice. I don't see where in my post I "pretended" that UPS handled packages with any sense of respect to what is in the box. Respect to what's in the box?? Nobody along the packages route knows what's in that box. They are all treated the same. If you've heard the horror stories, but don't do anything on your part to ensure your package is packed to withstand that, what does that say about you? Good ole Albert Einstein says “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

Oh, and let's not mention the drivers who have been witnessed dropping fragile amps and such from the back of the truck to the street.

I am at a disadvantage here as I don't know what you do for a living, but apparently you have never made an error at work. UPS handles 12 million packages a day. Even if I didn't work there, I'd assume a couple would get dropped accidentally each day. Try shipping em freight and see what your damage numbers would be.

Bayrocker, I am very sure that Jackson is going to take great care when packaging a $2500 guitar. It would make no sense for them to package something for shipping to only have to deal with damages over and over again. I checked with my dealer and the guitar should have been able to been shipped by way of Afghanistan. I know of nothing that could pierce the amount of packaging and a hard shell case in the exact shape as a forklift fork and I am quite sure that if Jackson was responsible they wouldn't have shipped only to end up trying to fight UPS for insurance money...your theory sounds like a losing proposition to a company as large as Jackson and ultimitely Fender. And by the way I have a very close friend that ran a forklift for UPS at one of their major hubs...I could care less who's at fault at this point I just want my guitar.

I know you'd like to think that shippers would pack their stuff as if it were worth $2500, but the simple fact is they skimp for profit. UPS does this too, I'm not a UPS fanboy by the way(They piss me off too...daily). $2500 guitars are packed the same way as $200 guitars. Your $2500 guitar could cost $3000 with proper shipping, but they wouldn't sell as many that way. I see items costing way more than $2500 packed horribly, so the assumption that Jackson would protect a $2500 guitar as if it were priceless is just that, an assumption. If they were dealing with damaged guitars "over and over again" they would stop using UPS, so I'd have to think it's not true, or they'd head elsewhere.

I have multiple customers that repeatedly ship glass bottles just placed in a cardboard box, no foam, no cushioning. UPS has repeatedly told them that they need to change their packaging. Their response, it is cheaper to deal with the occasional damage then to pay for the proper packaging. This is on something UPS will not even insure. This is how most businesses operate. The bottom line always wins. UPS is the same way, it is cheaper to deal with the occasional damage than to slow down the machine. I am just trying to warn others to pack accordingly. And Fed Ex and USPS are no different. That's all.

I was not looking for an argument, I was merely trying to warn folks to pack their valuable stuff accordingly. I also thought the ape and goon generalizations were a bit outta line. Both made by the same member.

A quick correction, apparently Fed Ex ground IS still using independent contractors as drivers. The inside operation is the same as UPS.

I agree you just want your guitar, and it does suck. I would not feel any different.

[guitardudeluke]

thas well gutting man hope u get a nice new 1

ups are pretty careless i ordered a js 30 ke before they must of dropped it the pottom of the guitar was chipped like a bitch fucking useless

[StukaJU87]

Stop the nonsense bro. If a package is marked "fragile: musical instrument" and still arrives broken with footprints on the box, someone is doing something wrong.
My best friend of 35 or so years worked the docks at UPS at one time. That is not "heard it from a guy who knows a guy who heard it, etc."

If I buy a Ford I do not expect Mercedes quality, however I DO expect my car to be delivered to me damage free.

[Jayster]

Fed Ex drivers are no longer independent contractors either. Fed Ex runs their operation the same as UPS. .

This statement is bull shit!

[Grahf]

Don't suck too hard on FedEx's cock:



The value of this beauty was forever ruined when F'edEx decided to play lawn darts with it and split the nose.

While it was an easy fix, that's entirely beside the point. It shouldn't have happened.

Both shippers hire from the same pool of apes and have the same idiot supervisors yelling "faster faster, we're losing money by doing it right".

hey!.. i work in the courier business man. and i've never messed anything up like that. we're not all like that.. then again i own my own business rather then working for one such as fedex, but i know a few guys working for dhl, purolator, etc. and they are really nice people

[Learn Guitars]

I'll still take UPS over Fed Ex any day. Sorry to hear about the damage.

[toejam]

Bayrocker, I am very sure that Jackson is going to take great care when packaging a $2500 guitar. It would make no sense for them to package something for shipping to only have to deal with damages over and over again.

Jackson takes great care in packaging a guitar? Wanna make a bet? Jackson puts the guitar in the case, then in a cardboard box. This is the way most manufacturers do it. They really need to get a clue on how to pack.

[Newc]

Agree with Toe. You wanna know how JCF01 came to me? In the case, wrapped in ONE SHEET of big-bubble bubble-wrap around the center - no head to tail, but around the middle where the case handle is - and then in a box.

It got here just fine.

I shipped a Roswell to Australia via UPS and it got there just fine.

I've received guitars that were literally wrapped in newspaper and tape - no case, no gigbag, no damage. I also received a Kelly packed like that and the tip of the body was chewed off.

I received one in a case with the label taped to the front. No lock, nothing. Got one in a gigbag like that too.

Anyone who ever bought from Chuckracer knows how he packed: unquestionably.
J0419's headstock snapped behind the Floyd bolts.

I've shipped hundreds of guitars via UPS and the USPS and only twice have I heard of slightly damaged goods once they arrived. The first one was admittedly my fault for not packing properly - I was a shipping newb at the time.

The second one was the evidence I needed that proved the old Pro series cases suck ass.

Now, I've received more damaged guitars than I've sent, and I didn't see anything wrong with the way they were packed. Granted when the Warrior Pro's headstock snapped in half, that was due to the hex wrench mounted on the back of the head and being in one of those 1990 Pro cases. The break matched the angle of the hex wrench in the holder perfectly.

However, as was stated, when they show up with footprints and tire tracks across them (anyone remember that one?), that's not the shipper - it's all on the courier.

Yes I know it's a business and I know all about quotas and parts per manhour and the fictional numbers they bandy about saying things like "it costs us $0.30 per package, so let's get those numbers down cuz we're going broke - hustle hustle hustle!"
And yes I know people make mistakes at work - the assholes don't admit to it and hang around to let the customer inspect it to make sure the "oopsie" didn't just cost them $3000.


You guys may remember a few years ago I brought up the idea of starting a Musical Equipment-only shipping/courier service. This can be done Pony Express-style. It might take a day or two longer, but at least it could be done. I'm not talking a billion dollar loan for airplanes and ships and trucks and drivers. I'm talking about rented vans and lower-48-only.
Ship it in a paper sack and it gets there as if it was packed in a vault.

[BayRocker]

Stop the nonsense bro. If a package is marked "fragile: musical instrument" and still arrives broken with footprints on the box, someone is doing something wrong.
My best friend of 35 or so years worked the docks at UPS at one time. That is not "heard it from a guy who knows a guy who heard it, etc."

Sorry, but it's not nonsense. A box marked fragile is treated exactly the same as one that is not. You are missing my point completely. I was not defending a footprint situation as this is the first that that has been brought up in this thread. And a "friend" who worked the docks "at one time" is what I'd consider a guy who knows a guy situation.

Done arguing, hope you've all enjoyed the flame session but I'm off to intentionally destroy a few guitars, it's what I do ya know. They don't call me Axegrinder for nothing. Mwaaa Haaa Haaa.

[Cleveland Metal]

Oh, and let's not mention the drivers who have been witnessed dropping fragile amps and such from the back of the truck to the street.

Yep... My Neighbor watched the FedEx guy deliver my VHT2150, and he came over after he left to ask what I got. I told him and he asked if it even worked now. He said he watched the guy roll my amp off the truck several feet to the ground. and roll it end over end to the house. Oh, about 50 ft I guess. I wonder why the corners were rounded/wadded up.

Thankfully the seller packed it like a nuclear reactor and it was fine. But WTF? Dude had a dolly RIGHT THERE!

Ugh... I know it's heavy at say 75+ w/container etc. But geeze...


And yeah, sucks about your axe... That's seriously fucked up.

[Newc]

Now let's talk about the Cracked Mirror Warrior I sent to Drake:

I shipped it in a nice form-fitted SKB case - I have not seen a case fit this good except on 3 occasions - the G&G Charvel Star case I got from VWall for that Shattered Glass Star, the War Angel case, and the case for JCF02.

This thing wouldn't budge and I shook it like a screaming baby. Aside from the handle, nothing moved, not even the latches.

I packed it in a box that was oversized, and filled it with crumpled newspaper and peanutz. I shook it like a screaming baby and it made no noise, not even the handle.

I printed out the shipping label on a standard 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper in bold letters and you could have used it for an eye chart.


Chuk watched the tracking info so he'd know when it was Out For Delivery and could be home for it.

He was home all day and it never came. Finally the tracking info was updated - delivered.

Except he didn't get it.

I contacted customer service and had them track it down, they showed SIGNED FOR DELIVERY.

I know Chuk. He and I had swapped Warriors back and forth for at least 2 years prior to this, at the rate of one every 3 months (usually the same one )

I knew he wasn't lying to me, so I filed the insurance claim and got the money. I refunded Chuk's money and waited for the insurance check from UPS.

About a month after I cashed the check, UPS rolls up in my yard and drops off the box with Delivery Refused written on the label.

WTF? He badgered me for months wanting that guitar, he already paid for it, he wasn't schizophrenic, so WTF?

So I sold it to Chuk again, and this time it went USPS and got there when they said it did.


Oddly enough, it took UPS over a week to get me an address to send their insurance refund to. Yes, I refunded their money. Originally they were going to send a truck to pick up the guitar, but I told them I'd rather reimburse them and re-sell it to Chuk since he still wanted it.

Finally they got me an address and I sent them the money - case closed.


You've all seen the Sprint commercials with the "What If Delivery People Ran The World" stuff and they're handling the school kids?

"Delivery confirmation on Callahan"
"Dropped him off at 8:30"
Yeah, at the wrong damn school. That's why you see him walking down the street. He's not skipping, he's shlepping his ass to the right school. But it's too late cuz now he gets detention and no one believes the carrier is to blame because they're so damn perfect. How hard can it be to get a package to the right address? It's written in English, or is that the problem?

But, for most folks, there's no alternative, so we're at the mercy of Samonite Apes and MegaCorp's bean-counters.

It takes all of 3 seconds to place a package properly and without throwing it, but people in shipping warehouses have an innate desire to throw whatever's in their hands. It's a neanderthal instinct. I've loaded trucks before, and yes, they're coming down the line 90-to-nothing with some asshat at the top of the line yelling "faster!".

I stepped out of the truck with boxes piling up and said "I'm packing this stuff properly. If you can do better, you come down here and I'll throw the boxes down to you."
Needless to say, he shut his piehole and let me do my job the right way.

[MetalHeadMat]

Who needs a forklift to lift a guitar?
If he was lifting a pile of stuff why would the guitar be on the bottom?
If it was on the top, he must be pretty blind.