Is this normal? Floyd Rose Issues

[Oblivion99]

Hey guys. I am not new to Floyds, and I have done plenty of set ups and adjustments on quite a few floyded guitars before. However, I would like to ask for some help about a certain issue I am having with a floyd guitar right now.

Every guitar I have had with a floyd rose (6 or 7 string) has required only 3-4 springs to equalize the tension with 10-46 (or 10-59 for 7) strings. I have in the past adjusted my floyds so that they rest just above the cavity or parallel to it, so I can clearly see when the tension is even.

Now recently I bought a guitar (new) where 5 springs were required in order to offset the tension of 10-59 strings (its a 7 string) and the floyd has to be recessed quite low into the cavity in order for the tension to even out. I have adjusted the truss rod, etc, but if I raise the floyd so that it is parallel to the cavity or even close, the action is far too high. I am having trouble evening out the tension when I can't really see if the trem has evened out or not in the cavity. Also due to the 5 springs and the trem having to be so low, pull ups with the floyd are pretty much non-existent.

So Basically:

Is this a fairly normal thing (very recessed trem, 5 springs for 10-59)or could this actually be a build flaw? If it is normal, what is the best way to even out the tension when you can't clearly see if the floyd is even?

How the hell am I supposed to ever use heavier gauge strings than 10-59 if already 5 springs are required? Just seems very odd to me.

Maybe I just have been relying too much on sight when it comes to this, and I should be adjusting based on other factors?

Like I said previously I have had several floyded guitars and this is the first guitar I have ever played where the floyd must be so submerged. Maybe I just haven't experienced enough guitars, but it seems odd to me that this is the only one I have played like this.

Sorry for the long thread, I appreciate any help here. Thanks in advance.

- Matt

[lerxstcat]

If the action is too high when the bridge is parallel to the top of the body, you should lower the action by screwing the pivot posts deeper into the bushings to lower the bridge at the pivot points. Don't want to do that under full string tension though as you will damage the knife edges and the posts.

If the pivot posts are already as low as they can go, then you may need to shim the neck to get a better angle, or adjust the truss rod for the same effect. I don't think angling the trem down into the cavity is the way to go, at all.

[Oblivion99]

The truss has already been adjusted, and the nut was shimmed when I recieved the guitar new (factory job I would assume). This is a neck thru.

The trem submerged quite far into the cavity is the only way that the action is suitable. I'm not a super low action guy, actually I usually prefer my action quite high so that there is as little buzzing as possible but still playable. On this guitar..if the trem is any where near parallel with the cavity, the action is just way too high, regardless of any other adjustments I have tried to make.

I thought something odd was up with this guitar, and I just realized there is something else likely very important worth mentioning. For some reason, the fretboard goes from 4/16 of an inch at the first fret to around 2.5/16 of an inch at the 24th. Every guitar I have ever had, the fretboard has been even from fret 1 to 24.

Also to note...this is an EXPENSIVE guitar...if this guitar is actually screwed up, idk what I will do...

Thanks for the response though man...I'm open to any suggestions.

[DonP]

For some reason, the fretboard goes from 4/16 of an inch at the first fret to around 2.5/16 of an inch at the 24th. Every guitar I have ever had, the fretboard has been even from fret 1 to 24.

Sounds like the nut is simply too high. This isn't a big deal to fix.

[DonP]

Hey guys. I am not new to Floyds, and I have done plenty of set ups and adjustments on quite a few floyded guitars before. However, I would like to ask for some help about a certain issue I am having with a floyd guitar right now.

Every guitar I have had with a floyd rose (6 or 7 string) has required only 3-4 springs to equalize the tension with 10-46 (or 10-59 for 7) strings. I have in the past adjusted my floyds so that they rest just above the cavity or parallel to it, so I can clearly see when the tension is even.

Now recently I bought a guitar (new) where 5 springs were required in order to offset the tension of 10-59 strings (its a 7 string) and the floyd has to be recessed quite low into the cavity in order for the tension to even out. I have adjusted the truss rod, etc, but if I raise the floyd so that it is parallel to the cavity or even close, the action is far too high. I am having trouble evening out the tension when I can't really see if the trem has evened out or not in the cavity. Also due to the 5 springs and the trem having to be so low, pull ups with the floyd are pretty much non-existent.

So Basically:

Is this a fairly normal thing (very recessed trem, 5 springs for 10-59)or could this actually be a build flaw? If it is normal, what is the best way to even out the tension when you can't clearly see if the floyd is even?

How the hell am I supposed to ever use heavier gauge strings than 10-59 if already 5 springs are required? Just seems very odd to me.

Maybe I just have been relying too much on sight when it comes to this, and I should be adjusting based on other factors?

Like I said previously I have had several floyded guitars and this is the first guitar I have ever played where the floyd must be so submerged. Maybe I just haven't experienced enough guitars, but it seems odd to me that this is the only one I have played like this.

Sorry for the long thread, I appreciate any help here. Thanks in advance.

- Matt

Hey Matt,

The number of spring don't mean shit. One spring streched to twice it's length has more pull than a handful of springs not being streched.

In other words, you are forgeting "distance".

In the trem cavity you have the claw. Tighten the claw to put more tention on the springs.

Of course, if the claw is all the way against the body, you're fucked

[ulijdavid]

Sounds like the nut is simply too high. This isn't a big deal to fix.

If I understand this correctly, he is saying the fretboard is thicker by the nut and gets slimmer towards the heel. That would mean that there is an extreme angle from the nut to the heel end of the fretboard. If that is the case, I believe the Floyd pocket would need to be deepened to allow the Floyd to go deeper into the body. That is a BIG problem.

Maybe a refret - low Gibson type frets towards the nut and super jumbos at the heel to try and level the fretboard.

[Spivonious]

If you bought it new, get it fixed under warranty. It shouldn't be like that.

[Grandturk]

Whether or not the Floyd is recess and the height of the Floyd should not affect the number of or tension on the springs. You should be able to raise or lower the Floyd without affecting its pitch (angle) greatly.

String tension is relatively constant, so that means that the counter tension required is constant as well.

The only thing that's not constant is the strength of the springs. There are soft, hard and medium tremolo springs available. Also, springs can get worn out over time and loose their elasticity, and thus, loose tension - making them easier to open. I would suspect that you either have a "soft" set of springs or very old springs.

If you feel the trem is dropping too far into the body for your liking, shim the neck (provided its a bolt on). This will angle the neck back a touch and allow you to raise the bridge while maintaining low action.

[dg]

It's a neckthrough. What brand is it? Can you post pics? That description of the fretboard having way different thickness at each end has me wondering if they botched the neck angle & had to plane the hell out of it. There are a bunch of different issues that you've brought up here, and pics would help us sort through them rather than throw a bunch of different solutions at you.

[Oblivion99]

If I understand this correctly, he is saying the fretboard is thicker by the nut and gets slimmer towards the heel. That would mean that there is an extreme angle from the nut to the heel end of the fretboard. If that is the case, I believe the Floyd pocket would need to be deepened to allow the Floyd to go deeper into the body. That is a BIG problem.

Maybe a refret - low Gibson type frets towards the nut and super jumbos at the heel to try and level the fretboard.

This is what I meant to say. The fretboard is thicker by the nut (1/4 inch) and near the heel the thickness is nearly half of that. They obviously screwed it up, and if the fretboard was even like on all my other guitars, the floyd would be sitting in a proper position pretty much flush with the cavity right now.

Yes it is neck-thru, so can't shim the neck or etc. I've done all I can to attempt to fix it at this point I think.

I am working on returning this guitar right now. I hope it is not too late. I won't be posting pics for the time being, but may later.

Thanks for all the responses guys..this is pretty unacceptable for a guitar of this price (it was over 3 grand). It really makes me feel like an idiot that I didn't notice this sooner

[DonP]

Thanks for all the responses guys..this is pretty unacceptable for a guitar of this price (it was over 3 grand). It really makes me feel like an idiot that I didn't notice this sooner

Sometimes these things don't seem so obvious. Who would think of the neck angle being messed up and corrected by planing the fretboard?

It's good you spotted it.

[toejam]

Matt, I replied to your PM. Contact the dealer and McD or Bionic to get this straightened out. It's a NAMM guitar and needs to be taken care of. Don't feel shy about posting pics of the guitar here.

[Grandturk]

So uhhhhh.... Are NAMM guitars becoming more like show cars? All show and no go?

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Wow, good luck getting that all straightened out, man. That sucks!

[Oblivion99]

http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1331885#post1331885