Set Necks & Floyds are a Bad Mix?

[shreddermon]

I've heard this issue from several folks through the years. Not sure if this is one of those goofy old guitarists' tales, or whether this should be taken seriously. Let's discuss, and hopefully you can educate me and set the record straight.

The old story goes that glued-in set-necks just don't deal well with the constant tension changes that go with Floyd whammy abuse. Not that the necks fail immediately. But that, with a Floyd constantly going from one string tension extreme to the other, the glue in the neck pocket eventually succumbs to the pressures, and the neck's stability is gradually weakened over time. Supposedly, this is why Gibson hasn't been too keen on offering Floyd'd Les Pauls through the years (until recently).

I've heard various version of this through the years, so not sure what - if anything - is to be believed on this topic. So whatchya think? :think:

[dg]

All I know is that my 20-year-old 750 XL was as solid & stable as any of my guitars, and I've never heard anyone complain of problems with them or floyded Soloist pros. These guitars all had sculpted neck heel areas just like the neckthroughs from that period, too.

[Sunbane]

Nowhere will you find so much stupid, supersticious, non-factual bullshit than in the guitar playing community. I think this is a typical example.

I don't think I've ever seen any set-neck fail at the glue joint. Even if you smash the guitar against the floor, it's more likely to break in other places.

[warlok]

Any good glue will make the joint stronger than the wood itself. Same with anything really.. (welding, brazing, etc..)

[DalyTek]

Exactly. Glued joints, if done properly, are stronger than the actual wood itself, just as warlok said.
If the repetitive tension changes were actually responsible for set necks coming undone, I could only imagine what would happen to bolt-on joints, being held by only a thin spiral of wood between the threads of 4 little screws.....

[Newc]

I've heard tales of old Les Pauls that had loose neck joints allegedly from the player flexing the neck at the headstock to get slight whammy effects.

However, no mention was ever made of how well they were stored and packed between gigs, so it could also have been due to unrecorded/unknown abuse (dropped cases, crap stacked poorly, etc).

[shreddermon]

Yeah, it has always sounded silly to me, too. Then again, all of the set-necks that I've owned through the years have been TOMs, so I've got no personal experience with a Floyded one myself.

[charvel750]

Gibson did have Floyds (Schaller) on the MIII models in the early 90's, never heard of a failure with those set in neck guitars. And some of their Les Pauls (LP Lite?) used the same Schaller. But even if that arguement were true, why wouldn't string changes do the same thing? You take all the tension off the neck and then full tension again. Besides, a Floyd usually returns to pitch in a relatively short time, not long enough for a serious change in tension and there won't be continual changes either. Bogus claim.

[sully]

Gibsons may have faulty or weakened neck joints because of their tenons. There's a tenon comparison image on the internet that you can see. It's two or three LPs sawed in half, and you can see the neck joint. Some of the tenons have huge gaps in them.

That said, the set neck/floyd thing sounds kinda silly to me. Screw whammy tension causing changes, how about restringing? Going from tension to no tension, back to tension? Very early Jacksons were set necks (I believe Spacey T's red soloist in the mondo Jackson ad was a set neck).

Sully

[6string40]

The last two posts hit it right I think...changing the strings, to me, would be more cause for alarm than anything...I think it's a bunch of mythical bullshit

[Bichmaker]

I think the way they glue it in makes the difference... Gibson tennon fitting is not always good... Just need something like this to mess you all up!

[lerxstcat]

The last two posts hit it right I think...changing the strings, to me, would be more cause for alarm than anything...I think it's a bunch of mythical bullshit

While I agree that it's bullshit, I would say it would be more plausible than the string changes because if you use a whammy a lot, you are going from full tension to zero and back again hundreds if not thousands of times in a short period. So the logic would be fair that IF t was gonna cause a problem, changing the tension thousands of times a week would be more apt to do damage than maybe chaning the strings a thousand times, if that, in the entire life of the guitar.

So yeah, it's bullshit - I have 2 mid-80s Carvins that are set necks, and though they have Kahlers instead of Floyds, the same basic principles apply. But IF the glue was ever gonna give at all, it would make sense that much more repetitions of the tension-no tension-tension cycle would do it than fewer, right? Same principle as metal fatigue, I would think.

[shreddermon]

+1 to Lerx. Over time, whammy use would do a lot more damage than string changes. Even if you were some freaky OCD-type who changed your strings daily, the frequency of tension changes from the Floyd would happen a heck of a lot more often (multiple times a day). And, depending on how much you dive bomb, be just as severe.

I still think mostly BS, though. Except for those Gibbys shown above. Heck, you could make a rocking horse for your kids out of that one neck.

[6string40]

Wait a minute...basically what you're talking about is constant dive-bombing for there to be that much of a tension change...otherwise, it would be a lot like bending the strings, no? Unless you're Kerry King, I don't see trem use making a difference.

The reason I think string changes could be worse is because they are not quick changes in the tension. You have constant tension, then you take all of that away for say 10-15 minutes, then you put all that tension back on. That sounds like it could be more stressful to me, but I don't know.

So...whether it's quick changes or slow changes, who knows (and who cares), but we all agree it's a bunch of shit no matter what.

[j2379]

ive never had an issue with any of my Floyd'd Hamers they wre all setneck.