Pots, pickups, etc.. big differences..

[warlok]

I have 3 very similar guitars in their construction but very different sound. '87 Model 6, '90 Soloist Pro, and '93 USA Soloist Custom. All poplar wings, HSS, 2 have ebony, M6 has rosewood. I'm looking to see what you think the BIGGEST contributing factor in the difference in sound is. Skipping the middle pup, here's what they have:
Model 6 - Duncan JB and little '59 with Alpha 500K push/pull vol and a 5way rotary switch (no tone).
Soloist Pro - Duncan Custom and little '59 with Alpha 500K push/pull vol and 500K tone (.047 mallory cap)
USA - Dimarzio Super Dist and SDS-1 with CTS 500K vol and tone (.022 mallory cap)
All push/pulls are for coil splits.

This description is all vol and tones full CW, full bridge HB, and amp not touched, just switched guitars back and forth. The Model 6 and Soloist Pro sound very similar. I thought the Custom would be pretty different from peoples descriptions but honestly, the tone/voicing sounds the same and the JB sounds smoother. Custom is a bit harsher but not as much as the Duncan Distortion I had before seemed. Then I grab the USA and can't believe the difference. More low end grunt, very punchy, cutting sound (for lack of a better term, just kinda in your face), and nice highs with great crunch and pick attack. Really made the Duncans sound weak. I hadn't played any Dimarzios as I didn't have any and knew I loved Duncans. But now I wonder if my love was misguided. Just seems to have a more full sound and more.. well... Metal!! I know there is probably a bigger difference in the pups than I thought but I've seen people ask and be recommended "maybe a Custom or a Dimarzio SD" so I didn't think there'd be that much of a difference. Do you think the big difference is the pickups only? Or is there a big difference in the Alpha vs. CTS pots? Or the caps? Or Ebony vs. rosewood? What do you think?

[Trem]

It's all gamble, i mean, everything contributes to the tone of the guitar, from the wood to the wiring to the pots and the pickups. Pickups choice specifically are going to be the biggest contributors to either shit or shine but then not exactly, but just taking into account using some logic and or from experience the choice to make - like not putting a known dark pickup in an already dark sounding guitar - unless that's what your going for.

Some pickups that sound great in one guitar are going to sound shit in another. Usually it's going to be guitars with large tonal differences from the start, like a ash or alder with maple or ebony compared to a mahogany rosewood guitar like a les paul, and then there's scale differences, bridges.

To really get an idea ( and only a general idea at that ) you'd probably have to make an experiment of it with the guitars that you have, and switch all the guts from each of your guitars into each other and see what happens. Doubtful right lol.

Barring that you could put a multimeter on the pots in each guitar ans see how much they differ, having a tone knob on the jb would offer some different results or a lower value pot. I always found that pickup, which i used to use in all my guitars to be helped by messing with the tone knob to varying degrees.
The super Distortion is quite thick sounding, a bit to hairy if you ask me and too much bass. Turning the volume down a tad is what i would probably do if I was using it. I do that with a super 3 same pickup eq'ed differently.

In reality any pickup even if you made it yourself if done within the general guidelines of how pickups are made will do. To me it's a bit of "marketing" and a little bit of design for pickups imo aside from magnet choices and how may winds they have and if they are scatter wound or whatever, they are really all the same thing really. Dimarzio, Seymour Duncan, Bareknuckles all that shit there all the same fucking thing.

More recently pickups are becoming more diverse in the way they are designing them,
due to the input of creative players who have done it all and are looking for the next level, but for the most part the have been the same thing for 30+years. The jb and the super distortion have been around for decades. It's more about do you like the sound of a ceramic magnet or an alnico magnet imo. Imo a ceramic magnet is the best for metal generally and it seems so as you usually find them in most "metal" type pickups.

The real answer beyond making obvious decisions based on the manufacturers description of what the pickup sounds like or is biased for, is what floats your boat?

Other than that there is no real answer other than every single thing about each instrument from the density of the wood, to the pots and the wires, even how good the solder joints are in the connections make a difference.

Wood be it two alder guitars with rosewood fretboards, maybe one piece of alder is more dense, maybe one is just a dog, ...ect ect, there's no definitive formula it's exhausting to keep chasing that carrot to me. I'll generally use whatever comes in the guitar, unless it's just totally horrible. Some people are tone chasers till they die, and it seems to me like with the pro's or whatever each "new" pickup that was designed for them or that they have just discovered is "the best pickup i've ever used", that is until the next one comes along

For example, when i got mt ibanex 7321 first seven string, i was thinking about what pickups i was going to switch out before it even arrived, that guitars frets are worn to chit and i still got the same pickups in them, they're fine in fact they actually sound pretty good. I'm sure i could throw a couple hundred dollars for some "better" pickups in it, but the difference is not going to be (to me) that great. I some to that conclusion by way of my other seven string which has emg's in it. Yeah it sounds better for leads, but the 7321 with cheapo ibanez pickups i think probably sounds better for rhythm. And the bc rich is a "better" guitar, neckthru maple mahogany ebony board which i think helps strengthen the higher tonal registers.

anyway, i say fuckit, lol, if i was a rockstar with an endorsement and i could have all these signature pickups, i might go down that road. As it is, i'll make whatever i got work unless it's really just not working it's usually good enough for me. While i lke reading about someones experiences with some new pickup and seeing what they think, it's doubtfull i am going to gas over it. Fuck paying the prices of say a bareknuckle for a pickup, i'm not that picky, and i doubt they are so much better than anything out there that they are worth the money, unless you just gotta have it, then i guess it's worth it to you, but being that much better than any other pickup half the price, i'd have to say bs.

whew,
well that's my long winded opinion, i just kinda think going thru a shit ton of pickups on a constant goose chase is a waste of money and time, but i guess you'll become an expert on telling people about pickups. At least in the guitar you put them in with the pots and wires you wired them up with. *shrug

[DonP]

The construction of a wood guitar is like an EQ. Certain pieces of wood help shape the tone. Since no two pieces of wood are the same, even if they are all built with poplar there are different shades of poplar.

Pickups are like an EQ as well.

When you mix the two together, two guitars with totally different constructions and pickups may sound similar, and two totally the same guitars may sound different (due to the wood being from different trees).

One of my best "Lynch" tone guitars is a RR24M with the stock EMG81. Who would have thought?

This is why I think any "What pickups should I use?" threads are mostly useless. Every guitar is different, every amp is different, each player plays different music and has different ears. Just look and see that everyone suggests a different pickup. Ask 100 people you get 100 different answers. If these threads helps someone get into the ballpark, it's a miracle.

The one place I made and educated decision on pickups did payoff however. I have a fixed bridge 750XL (not basswood) that was dark sounding with the Duncan Mayhem set, and just too much drive. I did research, found that the Full Shred set was designed for short scale guitars like the 750XL, and have been very happy.

[Trussrod]

The construction of a wood guitar is like an EQ. Certain pieces of wood help shape the tone. Since no two pieces of wood are the same, even if they are all built with poplar there are different shades of poplar.

Pickups are like an EQ as well.

When you mix the two together, two guitars with totally different constructions and pickups may sound similar, and two totally the same guitars may sound different (due to the wood being from different trees).

One of my best "Lynch" tone guitars is a RR24M with the stock EMG81. Who would have thought?

This is why I think any "What pickups should I use?" threads are mostly useless. Every guitar is different, every amp is different, each player plays different music and has different ears. Just look and see that everyone suggests a different pickup. Ask 100 people you get 100 different answers. If these threads helps someone get into the ballpark, it's a miracle.

I agree--it's all about equalization.

[markD]

it is, and it is a complicated equation. i know i get headaches from it, hahaha!! there are no strict rules. the only thing i have found over the years is that i prefer a dark tone, medium-output and humbuckers. what HELPS get me there is 250K pots. another thing is knowing that a high output picku is going to brutalize my amp too much. over the years, i have kept pretty detailed logs about electronic mods i have made to my guitars. as far as pickups themselves, i recognized over the years that i prefer a pickup with a DC resistance around 12K. i also stopped basing my choices around my distorted sound. i only worry about how my guitar will sound clean. the reason behind this is that if have a full, even tone with my guitar clean, then adding the gain will only add gain. my EQ on the amp is set pretty flat.

it has taken years, but most of the time i can get close to what i want. but at the end of the day i came to realize that each guitar is different in its own way and that is what makes it a musical instrument.

[warlok]

I agree with everything all of you said. I really never heard much of a difference in lots of the pickups I used before and can't see spending tons of cash on a "tone hunt". I only ever took recommendations as guidelines for bright or dark at best cause the entire rig from your hands to the speakers sets your tone/sound. Now that I am "hearing" things differently or maybe better, I'm finally starting to understand what parts of the sound are controlled by what, like the eq/voicing of a pickup, what makes the crunchy part of palm muting (not just more gain), things like that. It really just surprised the hell out of me when I was comparing the guitars against eachother and there was that much of a difference. It's really night and day. I think I'm going to pick up another Super Dist. and put in the Pro and see how they compare after that. Dimarzios are cheaper anyway so that's a plus.. If I get some time, I'll record and post a clip of each before and after.