Tuners (mini roto-grips)

[HammerBros]

Hello!

I've been getting much more used to my Charvel MIJ san dimas.
It's got the BKP nailbombs in, and I'm happy... kinda... something is dodgy with my selector switch. I've checked the connections but switching the neck sometimes looses signal level. its defo the switch too.

One thing that worries me is gigging this thing and busting a string.
Since I got the action lowered the floyd is only 2mm at most of the body, so I can pull up slightly but it seems fairly pointless. The plan is to add a temp block it to make it dive only and increase the trem spring tension to compensate for string breakage and double stop bends.

anyway...
for string changes in the event of one breaking while playing live, I'd quite like to try the Ebanol Nut and Locking Tuner approach. I've used locking sperzels before but wondered if anyone had tried replacing Mini rotomatic grovers with Mini roto-grip grovers. They look real close in terms of size. pilot screw in a different place.

Mini Grips...

Mini Standards...


I've read the debate on locking vs non-locking... lots of stuff about it on the Carvin forum, since Carvin's standard floyd setup has a non-locking nut.

The main danger seems that diving too far would knock the strings out the nut, but If i kept the retainer bar on there that should help by pulling the strings down over the nut.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Keeping the retainer bar will be a sure fire way to go out of tune every time you touch the tremolo, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Keep the locking nut, add locking tuners. It takes seconds to grab the wrench off the headstock and remove one of the clamps, then everything else is what you'd have to do regardless. :dunno:

[mjtripper]

Keeping the retainer bar will be a sure fire way to go out of tune every time you touch the tremolo, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Keep the locking nut, add locking tuners. It takes seconds to grab the wrench off the headstock and remove one of the clamps, then everything else is what you'd have to do regardless. :dunno:

What he said.

[HammerBros]

Problem is...
The holder for the allen keys i got with the guitar only holds the the allen keys in place by using a grub screw... that you need an allen key to fasten and undo, which seems pretty dumb. Like im going to carry and allen key to unfasten the allen key i need to unfasten the locking nut/trem. So I won't be fitting that to my guitar any time soon. Which means either paying for a fancy trem arm with the allen wrench tooled into the bottom, or when I play out, keeping the allen wrench in my pocket just in case.

part of my issue is that with this locking nut + retainer, changing certain strings and tuning up is a nightmare because the strings snag so much in it. So whatever happens, the nut & bar need replacing.

is there much point to having locking tuners + a locking nut? i can only imagine that it cuts out string winding from string change time, but after the nut is locked they don't really have any benefit.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

You do not need an allen wrench to remove the wrench from the holder. Loosen that screw a little if you can't manage to wiggle the wrench through the hole, it is just held in place by spring tension. If it's broken buy a new one from prorockgear for $12 or whatever.

The point to having locking tuners and a locking nut is to eliminate the time and effort to wind the string onto the post. I thought that was what you wanted, a quick and easy string change, but still staying in tune? :think: That's why I do it on my guitars, I have several double-locking trems with locking tuners, it's nice to not wind and wind and wind and wind every string change. But you are correct, it makes NO difference once it is tuned up.

I suppose your nut could be flawed but really all of the KFR nuts I've seen are much smoother than their German-made counterparts. So, I kind of I doubt that the strings are hanging up in that nut any more than they would any other nut (those are cast IIRC and are really smooth) or maybe the retainer has a burr but again, those are cast pieces and any flaws should be pretty apparent.

One idea, if the retainer is too low (screwed down too far) that could cause things to bind up pretty bad. Make sure it is just low enough to get the strings to break off the back of the nut right so they don't go sharp when you lock them down, i.e. they are resting on the nut all the way to the back toward the tuners, and NO LOWER. Do you hear it "ping" from the retainer when you tune?

Also, are you sure you are loosening the nut clamps enough? You want them pretty loose when you're tuning. I'm not sure how experienced with a Floyd you are, these are common mistakes.

[HammerBros]

the nut is flawed im afraid. probably a one off. The retainer has groves in it deep enough to go through the chrome. It came that way, kind of a hard thing to spot when demoing it i guess. With the nut locks totally off; the strings catch when detuning, then slip really flat. Same issue tuning up, but not quite as bad. It was a problem when i took it for a setup, after some more investigation I found that this was the issue.

Its not an issue once you get it tuned and locked in, it just makes changing the strings slightly harder than it need to be.

yeah the point was to have a faster change, but if i had locking tuners and i wasn't winding and winding around the post, then it seems that i wouldn't need the locking nut. I mean... yeah I could keep it, but If i decided not to keep it then I shouldn't have too much of a tuning problem if i was using the locking tuners correctly.

Im not that experienced with a floyd but i did plenty of research into setting them up before getting one and the first setup was done by a good tech who talked me through the whole thing (this was still with the factory strings on). After that I changed the strings myself, tried some other gauges, reset the floyd. changing the strings helped. Now its much better and holding its tuning when locked up.

I'll check that break angle off the back of the nut. I did take that retainer off to see if anything on the underside might snag a string... the answer was yes... when i put it back i made sure the bar was pulling down the strings against the whole surface of the nut (so the strings wouldnt go sharp on tuning up) but i'll double check i didn't put it down too far.

No nut locks and no retainer = no problem tuning at all (obviously you'd take the locks off to tune anyway haha)
In fact, I played it for quite a while with no locks and no retainer and really liked doing so... then i work up to locking it. haha. Now I'm way more comfortable with it all and its fine (apart from the string changes).

I was just into this idea of locking tuners with a normal (but slippy) nut. as per a bunch of the Carvin's or Chris Broderick's Ibanez.