Action - how low is too low?

[Cliff]

So I want my action as low as possible, so my fingers can dance like demons of flame across the fretboard. Or something like that.
Anyway, on my Soloist I seem able to set the action to a point where there's acceptable fret buzz and no fretting out, but it becomes tricky to bend notes on the top E string above the 19th fret or so. It seems that, when I bend, and try and gather up the other strings under my finger, they frequently slip underneath the finger. If I'm really careful to fret the note squarely with the finger tip, I can avoid this. So, is the action too low at this point, or do I just need to improve my technique?

On a related note, I read that lowering the action below the factory settings can invalidate the warranty. What's the potential for harm here? Increased fret wear?

[Chief_CrazyTalk]

I haven't heard that lowering action would invalidate warranties, but I don't think you risk anything worse than fret buzz.

I think what you say is happening is normal. Probably nothing that more practice won't help. Did you do the setup yourself or have a tech do it?

[DonP]

I like higher action rather than superlow. I like to get a boom out of the strings, and can't get that with super uber low action.

[Cliff]

Yeah, I guess it's all a trade off. I'm just trying to give myself a helping hand with legato and such.
@Chief_CrazyTalk - I lowered the action myself - haven't adjusted the intonation to compensate yet, since I haven't fixed on an ideal height. You think that was a mistake?

[dulrich1227]

question would be how did you lower the action ? birdge? or neck tweek? (they should go hand in hand) I do know when i am bending notes if the intonation is out i can hear it and it drives me nuts.. lol .. as far as voiding a warranty... never heard of that before... I usually keep my string (saddles/bridge) on a slight angle ... (low E up higher and than going down a bit lower to the high E) wound strings will vibrate more than high one and gives some extra umph ...

[sully]

I usually have action set to 3/32 on the bass side, and 1/16 on the treble side with the measurements taken at the 17th fret. Usually anything lower than that is going to take you to buzztown.

Sully

[Cliff]

Just double-checked mine at the 17th fret (I'd previously read about measuring at the 12th). At the 17th, I have 1/16th pretty much exactly on the treble side, and maybe just a touch higher on the bass. So it sounds like I'm good.
I adjusted this just at the bridge. My understanding was there'd be no need to adjust the trussrod unless there was a problem with the neck. Don't think I know enough to diagnose and correct that, but I'm pretty sure it's fine as it is. I found adjusting the bridge height made very little difference to the intonation - the adjustments I made were pretty minor. But if I measure with an electronic tuner at the 12th fret, I see it's out by a cent or two. Nothing I can hear myself.
@dulrich1227 What do you mean by a slight angle? Are you talking about the relative distances of the saddles backwards and forwards towards the neck, or something else?
BTW, the quote from the Jackson Owner's Manual is 'Please note that any problems that may arise from lowering the string height below our factory specifications will not be covered by the Jackson warranty."

Cliff

[Nightbat]

iow stringbuzz is not a factory error

[dulrich1227]

i meant pretty much how you said it and sully said it, my bad for not describing it better.... bridge sits a little higher on the bass side and lower on the treble side to allow for string vibration ...

[Newc]

One thing you'll also want to remember is that moving the strings closer to the pickups means the pickups are pulling on the strings more, so you may have trouble setting the intonation. Lower the pickups an equal amount as the bridge to alleviate this.

"Too low" depends on your picking style and fretting style. If you're punching the strings, expect a lot of grindout, excess fretwear, and pretty much more buzz than a billion bees. However, if you're merely grazing the strings with the pick and have a feather-touch fretting hand, then yeah, you're basically playing water on the table. You won't have much of a dynamic tone, but if you're doing shredolympics, tone is not as important as fluidity.


As for adjusting the neck, you probably shouldn't have to, as long as you tuned the guitar back up to pitch after you lowered the bridge. Keep the neck as flat/straight as possible, unless you're also tuning down. The trussrod has to pull the neck away from the direction the strings are pulling it, so when string tension decreases, like through downtuning, then the trussrod is pulling harder than the strings, which will make it bow back and cause excess fretbuzz. Over time, this can also lead to a permanently backbowed neck unless the trussrod is adjusted accordingly.

[Cliff]

Thanks all for the advice - this forum rocks!
Sorry, dulrich - now I re-read your post, it makes perfect sense. I must learn to read more carefully .
NewC - I'm trying to improve the level of control over picking - I used to be pretty heavy handed, but am beginning to realise that all that sound and fury in rock guitar doesn't necessarily imply knocking the hell out of the strings to achieve it. Basically just an old hack who's revisiting some bad habits and trying to improve my technique - I should probably worry more about that than half a millimetre's difference in string height.

[Newc]

I'm the same way. I used to bash the strings with a thin pick, but then moved to a Dunlop Jazz III and had to learn how to just flick the strings with it rather than pound them.

[toejam]

BTW, the quote from the Jackson Owner's Manual is 'Please note that any problems that may arise from lowering the string height below our factory specifications will not be covered by the Jackson warranty."

Jackson must have retarded monkeys writing their manuals.

[PowerTube]

One thing you'll also want to remember is that moving the strings closer to the pickups means the pickups are pulling on the strings more, so you may have trouble setting the intonation. Lower the pickups an equal amount as the bridge to alleviate this.

But that all depends on the time of year. If it's in the Fall when the earth rotates on its axis and North Korea becomes South Korea and vice versa, then he'll actually need lower action because the pickup magnets will have reversed their polarity.

You have to plan ahead for these things.

[Soap]

I'm just trying to give myself a helping hand with legato and such.

Just to determine what your are doing cause I'm somewhat confused and perhaps I shouldn't be, but I am.

Are you lowering the string height to better play legato licks? That's what I'm getting and just need to make sure.
If yes is the answer, your going about learning to play certain things in the wrong way.


Learning to play whatever is knowing what kind of a player you are.

The song may require certain dynamics from both playing hands.
But generally speaking are you a player who...

Has a heavy pick hand? Meaning, you have a tendency to dig down into the strings when you play.
Or do you have a light pick hand? Meaning, you lightly touch the strings when you play?

Do you have a tendency to grab notes and grip the neck?
Do you grip the neck and dig in when you bend or perform vibrato?


String height is a matter of preference/comfort.
I've seen and personally and have played with players who prefer a little height on their strings and play and shred wonderfully.
I've also seen and know players who the lowest string height possible and play wonderfully as well.

Figure out what you like and what kind of a player you are and move forward.

Pickups, bridges, fretboard wood, body wood, string gauge and brand and so on and on is subjective.