F-spacing not same as Trembucker?

[warlok]

Wait.. Trembucker is not the same spacing as F-spaced??? I thought "Trembucker" was just Duncan's term for F-spacing?? As in "F"ender spacing was the correct pole spacing for use with most tremolo's string spacing and Duncan just calls it Trembucker. Is that not true:think:??

[Ward]

That's what I was always told. I'm interested to see if it is wrong...

[Hellbat]

I thought the "F" was for Floyd Rose?

[Ward]

F spacing pre-dated Floyd Rose.

[ralph]

Isnt the F for Fender spacing? and I thought that Floyd Rose designed the trem to go on His strat, therefore a Floyd rose has F spacing, just a coincidence that Fender and Floyd Rose start with an F

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

"F" is for fender.

Trembuckers line up pretty much perfectly with a Floyd's string spacing, and F-spaced is slightly narrower. Both are wider than a standard humbucker.

I'll post pics if you shitbirds don't believe me.

[DarkkWarriorr]

F spacing pre-dated Floyd Rose.

Actually that's what I thought too. If you buy a PU with an F-Spacing, it won't line up well if you have a Floyd Rose.
As for the Trembuckers, I'm not so sure though, here is what Seymour Duncan has to say about it:

"Humbuckers and Trembuckers are very similar to each other, and most humbucker models also come in Trembucker versions. The Trembucker-spaced JB, for example, is a TB-4 and the humbucker-spaced version in an SH-4. The only difference is the wider spacing of the pole pieces on the Trembucker versions. This spacing issue only applies to the bridge position pickup, which is why Trembuckers are recommended for the bridge position. Trembuckers are designed for wider string most commonly associated with Floyd Rose or vintage vibrato bridges (often called Tremolos) with a string spacing of 2.070" or 52.6mm, measured center of high string to center of low string over the bridge pickup. Humbuckers are designed for bridges with traditional Gibson humbucker string spacing of 1.930" or 49mm, measured center of high string to center of low string over the bridge pickup. Humbucker spaced pickups work in both bridge and neck positions, even with a Trembucker-spaced bridge pickup. A quick and easy way to tell which you need is to measure from the middle of the high string to the middle of the low string, directly over the pickup. If the distance is greater than two inches or 50mm, go for a Trembucker. If it's less than two inches or 50mm, go for a humbucker."

Confusing?

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Actually that's what I thought too. If you buy a PU with an F-Spacing, it won't line up well if you have a Floyd Rose.

It will line up better than a standard humbucker will, so if you want a DiMarzio, you want F-spaced.

A Fender vintage bridge is even wider than a Floyd Rose, which is wider than the "modern" (American Standard and MIM Strat) bridge's spacing. A Fender vintage bridge is a "tremolo" so why think that the "trembucker" has anything more to do with Floyd Rose than the "F" that stands for Fender does?

If it is a Fender guitar you want F-spaced or a trembucker for the bridge, I don't really think there are any exceptions to that, with all the common bridges (including Floyds.)

[DarkkWarriorr]

^ Ahh, thanks a lot for the clarification. You're the best.

[ralph]

From what i read:

Dimarzio regular spacing 0.383" (1.915" total) (super distortion)
Dimarzio F spaced 0.402" (2.01" total) (super distortion)

http://www.dimarzio.com/sites/default/files/diagrams/DMHBdim.pdf

SD Regular 0.4" (2.00" total) ('59)

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/dimensionpages/sh-1.shtml

SD Trembucker 0.414" (2.07" total) (TB59)

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/dimensionpages/tb59.shtml

Confusing? na, spacing doesnt matter anyway, or if you are really worried use an X2N or L500XL or EMG's

[Newc]

So in summary, DiMarzio uses "F-spaced" the same way Duncan uses "Trembucker" - if a standard non-F-Spaced/non-Trembucker (i.e. neck) pickup does not align with the strings at the bridge, get the F-spaced/Trembucker. Doesn't matter if you have a Floyd or a Fender or Wilkinson or even a recent Gibson with the not-as-angled tuneomatic bridge with the wider string spacing.

[Newc]

It will line up better than a standard humbucker will, so if you want a DiMarzio, you want F-spaced.

A Fender vintage bridge is even wider than a Floyd Rose, which is wider than the "modern" (American Standard and MIM Strat) bridge's spacing. A Fender vintage bridge is a "tremolo" so why think that the "trembucker" has anything more to do with Floyd Rose than the "F" that stands for Fender does?

If it is a Fender guitar you want F-spaced or a trembucker for the bridge, I don't really think there are any exceptions to that, with all the common bridges (including Floyds.)

Ok, so if we look at this:

From what i read:

Dimarzio regular spacing 0.383" (1.915" total) (super distortion)
Dimarzio F spaced 0.402" (2.01" total) (super distortion)

http://www.dimarzio.com/sites/default/files/diagrams/DMHBdim.pdf

SD Regular 0.4" (2.00" total) ('59)

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/dimensionpages/sh-1.shtml

SD Trembucker 0.414" (2.07" total) (TB59)

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/dimensionpages/tb59.shtml

Confusing? na, spacing doesnt matter anyway, or if you are really worried use an X2N or L500XL or EMG's

Then we can see that the difference between standard-spaced DiMarzio and Duncan pickups is 0.017"
If we also then look at the difference between the F-spaced and Trembucker, we find a difference of only 0.012"

The spacing difference between an F-spaced and a Trembucker and a Fender trem and a Floyd will have absolutely no audible effect on the pickup's response, so it serves no purpose to state they are different other than to state they are different.

[lhrocker]

Wasn't the trembucker originally a Seymour Duncan pickup that had polepieces that were parallel with the guitar strings and made especially for Floyd guitars? I had one when they first came out - very hot but very dark sounding. Then later on, they used the term as Dimarzio used F-spaced.

[Hellbat]

I vote we change it to F spacing standing for "Fuck Toejam spacing"!

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Ok, so if we look at this:



Then we can see that the difference between standard-spaced DiMarzio and Duncan pickups is 0.017"
If we also then look at the difference between the F-spaced and Trembucker, we find a difference of only 0.012"

Nope. The difference between DiMarzio and Duncan standard spaced is .085" total and for F-spaced to Trembucker it is .06" (you quoted the inter-string difference, not the total difference) and that makes the total pole spacing of the F-spaced pickup about 1.5 mm narrower.

The DiMarzio also uses the same size coil with wider pole spacing, presumably so the winding is not different as they are in the Duncan Trembucker vs. the same non-trembucker pickup, so it's a completely different design approach, to boot.

The spacing difference between an F-spaced and a Trembucker and a Fender trem and a Floyd will have absolutely no audible effect on the pickup's response, so it serves no purpose to state they are different other than to state they are different.

First of all, you don't actually know if it has an audible effect or not because you cannot isolate only the pole spacing difference from the other design differences.

Second, IIRC you are one of the people who swears that a TB5 and an SH5 sound different, which is a .07" difference - So, at what point does the difference matter? The extra hundredth of an inch difference between an SH and a TB makes a difference, but between a TB and an F-spaced, it doesn't? That doesn't seem very likely to me that there is NO difference until you get to that last hundredth of an inch.

Third, they ARE different, by 1.52 mm overall pole spacing. The Duncan is a slightly better match for the Floyd and the vintage Fender bridge, while the DiMarzio is a slightly better match for the American Standard/MIM bridges, for the closest alignment of pole pieces. If you don't think the alignment of the strings over the pole pieces matters, then you are free to think that, but it doesn't change the fact that the pickups are different.

But let me re-quote the statement of yours that started this whole discussion...

Ummm, no. F-spacing is only for the bridge. Standard-spacing at the neck works for everything (well, except maybe a Nightswan or the middle of a 3-pickup LPC).

If it serves no purpose to state they are different other than to state they are different to point out a 1.52 mm difference in pole spacing between the F-spaced and Trembucker, then why say an F-spaced pickup that is .25 mm wider is not a viable option?