A bit of a strange refin-related question..

[Misanthrope[ALWT]]

Can anyone with a knowledge of bodywork please shed some light on the deal with adding tops? That is to ask, Is it possible/a good idea to ADD a good top wood of a more interesting finish (a really dark smoked burst koa top a la this http://www.prsguitars.com/privatesto.../img/1535a.jpg but darker, for the sake of detail) to a thin-bodied carved-top neck-through guitar? For further reference, the project in mind is said top (and maple pinstripe binding) added to a black SLS3 for the purposes of adding a neat-o unique finish and more importantly, filling out the tone lost by the decrease in size and amount of relative mahogany. I'd assume small mahogany wings on a maple neck-through aren't quite as mahogany-ish/full/warm/as I want in this hypothetical guitar in my planned future, and if a refin would add some damn substance (but not TOO much.. I'm talking about like, a 3/4" maybe) and beneficially affect its tonal qualities, it'd be damn near perfect. Oh and by the way, I know this will be expensive as fuck; the reason don't just shell out for a custom is because I plan to get the guitar soon (I need a new guitar, dude, and I love the SLS3) and gradually improve upon it as time passes.

So with all of that mumbo-jumbo spurted, please, JCFers. SHARE YOUR WISDOM!! And by all means, call me a quack-o if this is indeed as weird an idea as it seems to me.

[sully]

Yes, it’s possible, but dunno if I’d say a good idea. As you’ve already stated, it’s a LOT of work, and when you add in the cost of what you’re wanting to do on top of the cost of the guitar, you’ll be at custom build pricing.

You mention a perceived loss of tone because of a size decrease. I’ll go ahead and say that weight/thickness of a body doesn’t equal tone, and not all Mahogany is equal. You’re better off improving pickups/wiring than what you’re proposing. That said, I’d be sure that the guitar that you’re getting is resonant as hell when it’s unplugged. Playing a guitar acoustically will tell you a fair bit. If it’s lively while playing acoustically, you’ve got a gem.

[Misanthrope[ALWT]]

Hmm.. that's what I was afraid of.. If you could, would you mind sharing a loose estimate or some pricing from similar refin jobs?

As for the tone issue, my initial plan was just to get the guitar (duh, haha), play the shit out of it whilst being as critical to the sound as humanly possible, then shelling out on kickass set (I've been looking at DiMarzios and BKPs, particularly).. But since I HAVEN'T yet played the guitar, I got anxious about the fact that although I trust a Pro series MIJ to have up-to-snuff-quality mahogany, the lack thereof could possibly spell a lack in fullness that I can't compensate for with a pickup fat enough to fill it out without getting all flabby on me; maybe it's just me, but it seems like mahogany wings on a super-lightweight carved maple neck-thru really ISN'T all that much mahogany...? I mean, of course I'll know straightaway when I play it, but where I'm located there's no chance in hell I'll spot this guitar on any floors in any shops near me without ordering it.. so I figure if I'll have to spend twice the price of the ax on "perfecting" it, maybe this endeavour can't be all that fruitful.. With that said, I hope I'm not rambling, but do you have any further thoughts?


Everyone feel free to chime in as well

[sully]

Off the top of my head, I’d say you would have to consider the following:
1. Rout the existing top down the amount of the thickness of the top that you’re adding (about 1-2 hours of work, so let’s say $50-100)
2. Purchase the Koa top ($110-$175 based on the current samples at www.northridgehardwoods.com, which is where I usually get tops from). Now, with the body, is that to be carved, or is it going to be a flat top? If carved, then you’ll need a top that’s about ¾” thick, and that’ll most likely cost over $200 for the top alone. Koa is expensive. Oh, and add shipping to that (about $20).
3. Join and glue the top to the body – consider that you’ll need to cut the fretboard cutout so that it’s PERFECT and no gaps around the fretboard edge. I guess you could remove the binding and the fretboard (and the wedge underneath the fretboard that continues the neck angle up from the body), put the top on, make whatever adjustments you need to, then add the fretboard and binding back, but you see where I’m going here; this part has to be perfect or it’ll look terrible. (No clue what I’d charge for that, but it wouldn’t be cheap)
4. Get the top to final shape, rout your pickup holes, bridge holes, stringthrough holes, control holes. (roughly 2 hours, so figure $100)
5. Sand, sand, sand/paint prep
6. Paint, wetsand, buff (generally $300-500 for a neck thru depending on where you go)
7. Assemble the guitar ($50-60) and install new pickups that you spent $160 - 300 on (depending on if you go boutique).

And when it’s all said and done, you’ve spent at minimum $790 without figuring what it’d cost to add the top (never retopped a neck thru). Add that to what you paid for the guitar (Musician’s Friend has them for $1299, so let’s go with that) and you’re left with a highly modified mid line import guitar that now has zero resale value, and there’s still no guarantee whatsoever that the guitar will sound any better than before. I could build a similar guitar from scratch for that amount.

Let’s go back to your concern about thinner body = less wood = less tone/low end. People argue this all the time, but I believe that while the wood certainly makes a difference, the majority of an electric guitar’s tone comes from the pickups and electrical components. Just my opinion. I’m NOT saying that there aren’t other factors, because there are, but let’s face it, if you’re playing metal through high gain amps, you’ll have a hell of a time justifying all that you’ve done. I hate to use him as an example, but many people love EVH’s tone, and his main guitar was from a parts bin, a low output pickup, and it looks like hell. As I mentioned before, there’s zero guarantee that making these modifications would improve (or have much of a change on) the guitar’s tone. I’m sure the wood quality in the Japanese factory is fine in that it’s instrument quality, but let’s be real here, it’s highly unlikely that there are people going through lumber and tone tapping the stuff. Also consider that if a guitar’s weight guaranteed it’s tone, we’d all be playing 15 pound guitars. In reality, the guitars that seem to offer the liveliest tone (broad generalization here, but there’s merit to it), have been lighter ones. Check out LP classified ads; it’s not uncommon for people to ask the weight; there is something to the desirability of a lighter guitar. Again, not a hard and fast rule, but usually, 6-8 pounds seems to be desirable. When buying lumber, the lightweight stuff usually costs more.

I don’t mean to come across negatively, but if someone asked me to do all of that to a guitar, I’d turn it down immediately. I can’t imagine any circumstance where I’d take that on, and I don’t know any honest person that’d say that it’d be a good idea that’s absolutely worth the time and your money. If your quest is to find the best playing, sounding guitar for your money (which makes sense to me), your best bet is to go to as many music stores as you can and start playing a bunch of guitars. Granted, I know that not everyone can do that, and from what you’ve mentioned, it’s not like there are a bunch of what you’re looking for just waiting for you to go cherry picking, but there is no exact science that will say X wood + Y wood = tone similar to the voice of God reverberating off of the oiled skin of the Swedish Bikini Team. You can have the most highly figured woods in a guitar and it be lifeless, and the other way around. There are no guarantees.

Okay, so I think that’s more than you ever asked for, but that’s what I got for now. I hope it helps.

Sully

[DalyTek]

Why not just spend the extra cash you're planning on spending on "perfecting" it on an upgraded Soloist model and avoid the headaches.
Buy one from one of the respected fellas (or sponsors as needed!) so you already know and trust the playability of the instrument, since none are available in Riverside (REALLY???)
I think you could get a lot more guitar for that upgrade money!

[Misanthrope[ALWT]]

Well thanks, dude! That's definitely all I could desire in an answer, and extremely helpful. This might sound a bit masochistic but I'd MUCH rather have my bubble bursted/parade rained on/ dream crushed/whatever than have some money-hungry yes-man tell me it's a great idea when it's definitely NOT. So I definitely appreciate it! And to address a couple minor things, I knew I'd kill the resale value.. I intend to keep the guitar forever because I'm like that, so resale is of no consequence personally. Second, you are correct about not having cherries to pick in my vicinity. My best bet would be WIld West Guitars, and even they have a pretty limited selection when it comes to Jacksons. Their PRS selection is fantastic, but I don't recall ever having a fantastic white moustache or wearing a suit and a monocle, so I won't even go down that road..

Anyways, thanks very much for educating me! I think now I'm just going to get the guitar and go nuts on the pups and hardware (I'm thinking gold Gotoh 510s and gold knobs/saddle/pup bezels maybe). We shall see.

[Misanthrope[ALWT]]

Why not just spend the extra cash you're planning on spending on "perfecting" it on an upgraded Soloist model and avoid the headaches.
Buy one from one of the respected fellas (or sponsors as needed!) so you already know and trust the playability of the instrument, since none are available in Riverside (REALLY???)
I think you could get a lot more guitar for that upgrade money!

Well, man, I'm not upgrading the SLS3 because I HATE it, I freakin' love the guitar.. I just was fantasizing about attempting to get more out of it. The reason I don't get a Soloist is, well, it wouldn't have what the SLS3 does - sharkeyes, smurfy, mahogany, thin body, and if i remember correctly, speed neck profile - so I would have to spend probably even MORE money on a custom shop soloist with these features in order to get the features I wanted to begin with in addition to modifications.. And that seems like a runaround/waste of money to me.

Oh, I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy from one of the JCF sponsors, and yes, sadly Riverside is a dry well for quality Jacksons :/
And yeah, good observation.. that's why I'm (sadly) abandoning the added top idea.

[Misanthrope[ALWT]]

Sorry for the double-post guys.

[warlok]

I did do everything sully said on my model 6 but maybe easier as in flat top quilted maple (no carve). It is pretty damned expensive and I searched and searched to find the best (cheapest) prices on everything I bought. Good choice on scrapping the idea. I'd do it again but I'm glutton for punishment I guess..

[Nightbat]

Well, man, I'm not upgrading the SLS3 because I HATE it, I freakin' love the guitar.. I just was fantasizing about attempting to get more out of it.

All the more reason not to do anything permanent (EVH and his 'sharkmouth' destroyer come to mind)

[Misanthrope[ALWT]]

All the more reason not to do anything permanent (EVH and his 'sharkmouth' destroyer come to mind)

Haha I think it's pretty safe to say cutting a chunk out of the back half of a soloist is a bit far off from adding a top.. not to mention I am practically ASKING you guys to slap some sense into me, and there really ONLY could've been some serious yeswork going on to allow that destroyer job to exist. But I completely get your point.