Hardware tuners etc. - How do you tell if its fake or not?

[ginsambo]

Right, recently bought a Used Schaller Floyd, a Gotoh 41mm locking nut and some Grover tuners for a project guitar.

Went to change strings on the Schaller and the strings retaining cubes have shattered around where the machine screw insert is. I guess this is normal from over tightening a tiny hardened steel part, so I'II dismiss that to abuse from the previous owner.

Went to fit the locking nut and the two mounting screws were like plasticine in the pore drilled holes, shiny pot metal kack. Used the ones off a Jackson neck in the end.

Went to fit the Grover machine heads, with large and deep, pre drilled holes for the mounting screws. Chewed every screw head off with a fine driver bit <Pozi#1 , gently by by hand.

Went to do up the mounting nuts on the tuners, plenty of thread overlapping to take, still managed to thread three of them...by turning the socket gently by hand...FFS!

All these parts (Except the schaller) seem to be made from pot metal. Ok so I'm used to dealing with car parts, but these parts take the piss with the price I paid for them, which makes me think, are they just cheap chinese knock offs? I know damn well when tightening a jack socket plate you can go and go and never thread a damn thing and that has a narrow nut with almost no thread on it.

Is this the sort of quality you expect from Grover and Gotoh and guitar parts generally. Is a feckin outrage it seems to me. Or are these parts neatly packaged fakes?

Anyone have any experience with the items....from ebay?

OK An update, the tuner thread housings have sheared from the tuners so they are fooked. They did this by screwing by hand without the tuner nuts being tight in the socket. Are they genuine Grovers? Or shall I make a claim against the seller?

Will post a pic up in a mo. They have diecast marks on the stem of the tuner and the tuner head is pitted from diecasting. Me thinks they are fakes?

[zeegler]

You should start taking your guitars to a tech.

[DalyTek]

Guitar parts are not meant to be torqued down hard. If you're used to dealing with car parts, you should know that every nut and screw has a recommended torque and over-doing it can likely cause damage.
It's a common misconception that since guitar parts are under high tension from the strings that you have to make every connection as tight as humanly possible.
I've made that mistake myself. Over-tightening screws in a Floyd and stripped out the threads in the holes. I have a Floyd right now that the previous owner did that same thing to all 6 saddle mounting bolts.
They just need to be snugged hand-tight, then use the Allen wrench to tighten about 1/8-1/4 turn and that's it. Don't force it. Chalk it up to a learning experience.

[ginsambo]

Yeah agreed, just tight enough to hold them in place, as its not truck wheelnuts we are dealing with. But I think you misunderstand. The Floyd came in the post damaged as the previous owner had over tightened the retaining machine screws.

I had Pre drilled the neck to accept the screws for the nut etc. and the screws were not torqued or forced at all, they were just very soft pot metal. Jackson ones worked perfectly with no chewing, even though heads were same size....anyway....


The tuners, as I say are my biggest concern, two were still rattling on the headstock, which isn't thin by any means, I did not use a 3' breaker bar, I did them up with a socket by hand (Without a ratchet), making sure the threads took first and two snapped the casings before they even stopped rattling in the headstock. A tech would have had the same problem. The casing seem incredibly thin and when they broke no lubricant spilled out, I thought Grovers were sealed with lub? Honestly, they are the quality you get in a Xmas cracker. I'm used to dealing with car parts of all torques from interior fittings to fuel injection pump components to crank pullies. Its not me I can assure you!

The tuners came on a 205G6 packet (G meaning Gold), yet they are chrome.....The bad casting marks which protrude about a 1/32" on the stems and pits on the tuner head surface make me think they are fakes, none of my other, even cheapy tuners have this bad casting quality. And other Grovers I have seen are smooth and very polished, without any casting marks at all. The more I think about it the more I think the seller got some cheap china fakes and put them in the packet he bought his genuine gold ones in.

DO GENUINE GROVERS have crude, raised casting lines up the stem of the tuner and on the underside of the tuner head and also pitted tuner heads and bodies from casting? I think I was naive to think that there isn't a lot of fake hardware out there, in my rush to finsih the guitar and should have checked them before installation.

Casting lines and blobs of metal under tuner heads and on stem of tuner.
Generally pitted surface from casting
No Lubricant
Casings snapped when doing up sleeved nuts by a socket by hand, without a ratchet!
Wafer thin metal at cast joint between sleeve and tuner casing.

Take a look:

[DalyTek]

Well, Schaller Floyds do tend to be a little soft...much softer than their high price warrants, in my opinion.
And those string locking blocks definitely crack under too much pressure.
I have also encountered the soft screws that chew up before you can even get them in all the way.
Neither of these parts lead me to think they might be fake.

The Grovers...now those I am not too sure about. I have, in fact, seen fake Grovers.
But they were on fake guitars, not on a retail blister card.
I have never experienced (or even seen, for that matter) the problems you had with the Grovers before.

Did you get them from a "questionable" seller? The QC does seem to be a little low on the one in the pic, I agree.

[ginsambo]

No not a dodgy seller. Sold as used/never got around to being fitted as a one off by a private seller much like myself. Says he got them off a mate some time ago. As the code on the blister pack sticker and the actual tuners don't match, maybe someone had a fake guitar, bought genuine gold grovers and slipped these kacky chrome ones back in the blister pack. I am speculating, I don't know. I'II give him some funds for his postage costs and a quid as a good will gesture. Seems as unaware as I am. They are either bad seconds or fakes. No way they are fit for purpose if you can crack the casing by hand without a ratchet. I am a hard man, but I'm not that strong eh! Live and learn I guess. Probably is I'd like to get some others but I'm stuck with the 205 drill pattern now.

Craving for beer now I have seen that pic I posted after a mornings work... better get back to work.

[ginsambo]

Just an update on the 'Grover' tuners, they are definitely fakes.

Watch out for:

Casting lines, blobs of metal, light pitting and unclean, slightly wavy edges of cast pieces and joints.

Upper black seal under tuning key not compressed under key

No letters or mark stamp/casting on inside (Neck side) face of tuner casing

Grover writing is too shallow with the lowest parts of the writing about 1.5mm above the circle insert on tuner casing face. Real Grovers have the ROV part of the grover casting almost touching the circle insert and the text is a lot deeper.

If you get a set like this, send them back, don't fit them as they'll break or be shite and you'll notive months later when its too late. They are not the real deal.