What's fact, what's not and manipulating the public opinion

[ralph]

Anyway, I hope you never get a dud guitar neck. If you do, keep buying the same brand of guitar cause to you, its the nature to blame not the manufacturer :dunno: right?

If this does happen to me, I will buy a guitar based on its own merits, not solely on what I read on the internet, regardless of manufacturer

[Chad]

I`ve said everything I needed to say. From now on I will just see what people think . Cause some people are still stuck with warranty, warpage, neck thru thing, instead of getting the whole picture. Thanks for all the inputs anyway.

I guess I don't get "the big picture" and what your point is. Sounds to me like you think guitar manufacturers should be doing more R&D in an effort to come up with materials and construction methods that eliminate variables and guarantee absolutes. And we are saying that isn't possible. So it goes in circles.

[ralph]

The OP's posts either dont have a clear point or have conflicting points, this is done so that no matter what responses are recieved, the OP can then argue againt them while still maintaining that their opinion is wiser and more well thought out

Well done OP!

[axmann]

I have no expectation when I deal with wood. Yes, I have a conscious thought process ,what I think will work using education and experience. But it doesn't always pan out that way when I build something. I do the best I can, with what I have learned. Ultimately it may just work, or it may work stellar. Thats the beauty of it. I have no solid expectations. Yep, I hope it's going to be way cool. When it does thats a great thing. It's not a perfect world. When I start thinking that I am in for disappointment compounded. I won't let myself do that. I have had alot of experience with tonal qualities of various woods, grain direction versus tonal deflection. Grain patterns for strength in necks. Glued, screwed, or through construction. Yes , I agree, I hate sloppy craftsmanship. Guys in here know I'm anal with that. But I still know its wood. I would not want a solid carbon fiber or alloy guitar. I still believe there is a musical soul that goes with wood. Yes we use lots of electronics and hardware with electric guitars. I still like to think the wood brought it together. Wood is like some chicks I dated, first date was cool, man I hope it stays that way. It keeps shit interesting for me. I don't want it to be a f'n sterile procedure. I want it to breathe or I'm getting bored.

[Argos]

I've studied this topic extensively and there's a lot of bologna out there. Just curious what links you have been reading? I always enjoy reading more about the subject.

What a can of worms. Most of the I've read comes from books on guitar engineering and the physical science of how guitars work. Do a search on guitar/instrument strings on Google Scholar and you'll find a bunch of relevant papers and books. I've never read a forum post or simple webpage that credibly argued for or against equal/balanced tension.

And why are you guys talking about wood? Listen, guitar companies have complete control over what wood is used for necks. If inherently shitty wood makes it into your expensive guitar, the company is at fault. Period. That said, I'd be willing to bet that the huge majority of wood problems (twisting, warping, etc) are induced after the guitar has left the factory, by users who do not know how to take care of their shit.

[CowboyFromHell]

I`ve said everything I needed to say. From now on I will just see what people think . Cause some people are still stuck with warranty, warpage, neck thru thing, instead of getting the whole picture. Thanks for all the inputs anyway.

Taking your ball and bat and going home so soon?

[Pointy]

Hey, since my post was cited here is where I stand now: I am still interested in all the details of guitar construction, the 'black art part' of it, and even semantics when it comes to describing a guitar. A lot of this is purely marketing - guitarists are notoriously conservative and opinionated, dogmatic even, and guitar companies have to make money too so they give us what we want. Not surprisingly, not all of us want the same thing.

I am not going through several guitars a year like some of you guys here, but even so I have realized that I care about how a guitar feels, plays, sounds, and looks. If it has some space-age tech construction or some voodoo mojo ritual shit that I like, cool - I do care about the science and art that goes in them but in the end that's a bonus. It's all about getting that blues-rock chatter, you know what I mean?

For the record, my 1998 flatsawn (and kinda ugly!) neck korean Ibanez never needed a neck adjustment after the first proper setup - she has travelled a lot, I have experimented with various string gauges and tunings and I am generally not kind to her at all. The AANJ will always be awesome, too! My RR24, well it's an amazing guitar that I fully trust will stand the test of time.

I do draw the line at cheap guitars mass-produced in China and southeast Asia... they still have a long way to go before they manage what Japan and Korea did in terms of quality. I am sure that many of those instruments play nice, but a whole fuckload of them don't, and I don't have the money or time to be trying guitars. I might consider a Squire CV though, those things get a good rep nowadays.


Lastly, the tunes and tones we grew up listening to and lusting after have been written and played on literally all kinds of guitars - and we didn't know if it was a slab of wood with a pickup or a lovingly crafted unique instrument until later, so... stfu and play! Oh well, I try

[Nightbat]

Dont expect me to answer your post. You obviously dont get my point.

Then make a point

[DonP]

What do you people say?

Member since Nov 2006 with almost no posts. All of the sudden 13 post in two days. WTF?

I have about 50 guitars of all makes and models. They all sound good to me.

That is all.

[Nightbat]

I have about 50 guitars of all makes and models. They all sound good to me.

Yeah so do mine, but are they flawless specimens of the most advanced components known to man?

[toejam]

metallica-rules-shut-up-beavis-thumb.jpg

[RacerX]

Toe I tried to find a YT clip but could only find:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVulRqV7_Ok

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

You gotta use flatsawn wood with flatwound strings and flat pole pieces to get the flattest sound, those are the facts... You can't argue with that and if you do, you're a moron.

[g_reaper]

Im addressing the Bolt-On-VS-NeckThrough question...

(1) Wood Quality and Wood Type is the first and most probably the most important element to a perceived "better tone". This can be substantiated by the reputation of the 1950s-1960s era Fenders and Gibsons that have "The Reputation".

(2) The number of pieces used in the body of the guitar changes "the Wave" if you look at vibrations passing through the guitar body. Heres where you get sh_t tone from 5-7 piece guitar bodies of today. Combine this with cheap woods and you have a nice crappy tone generated from the GLUE holding the guitar body together.

(3) IMHO quartersawn necks pass the vibrations more efficiently to the guitar body and back to the neck. This amounts to great sustain when the body and neck pair are married together appropriately. In addition when manufacturers set out to buy the best quality and most expensive neck woods they usually pick from availiable quarter sawn-stock because this fact is most probably known.

(4) Setneck and neckthrough guitars change the wave of the vibrations again depending on the design of the setneck or neckthrough build. I have found that these two designs are high frequency absorbing..yet thats just my opinion based on the many guitars of this type ive owned. If you keep in mind that most of these Ive owned are mahogany ( les pauls & PRS ), its easy to notice this attribute. Ive yet to play a mapleneck+maplebody neckthrough or set neck guitar so the more common use of the darker tone woods could cloud my assessment.


(5) I have some bolt-on guitars that are mahogany and pretty much get close to that ever so recognizable Gibson tone like Old Sabbath. In my opinion bridge type and fretboard woods play a part also but thats for another thread.

Buy USA Made!

http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/105715-Neck-through-construction/page1 is very, very interesting read. I thought although I am not a pro guitar player for some tens of years experience, but got some really sound knowledge in guitar building/guitar related topics. However, this thread proved me wrong. The thing I hate about guitar making is the fact that the semantics as well as known "facts" can get quite blurry by the time.

For instance, people have known neck thru construction to be superior regarding the sustain of the guitar. But for the last 4-8 years we`ve started to hear the bolt-on method is better. In this forum lots of people "believe" (I too) quartersawn necks are stiffer and less prone to warpage whereas in other forums some "techs" claim there are proven facts for flatsawn necks to carry these claims [http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/quartersawn-vs-flatsawn-117872/#13]. Or now, soloists for not being neck thru but set through. Last but not least, gluing a bottom wood to the extension neck makes stronger but is as well cost effective.

So I am sure there is no proven facts for anything we, guitarists discuss. From now on I have a firm believe there actually really isnt but there is only the concept of manipulating the public opinion. Otherwise almost every company would produce similar products offering same features (bolt-on, thru, quartersawn, e.t.c). To support my humble opinion take ESP for example. Have you ever seen any standart esp/ltd offering quartersawn necks to the market although a std, ESP starts from a good 1.5-2k? I am gonna pay 2k but receive an "inferrior" guitar? I dont think ESP could afford producing shoddy products especially considering the heavy competition. Or, Ibanez for populating the market with their "inferior" bolt-ons. And dont get me started on MIK, MIJ or USA stuff. Is ESP stupid to ask almost the same price for their Japanese products compared to hand made usa jacksons?

My MIK Cort x-th has the best neck (5pc maple/bubinga). God I have NEVER needed to adjust the rod for 2 yrs and never stored the guitar in its case!

What do you people say?

[Nightbat]

Im addressing the Bolt-On-VS-NeckThrough question...

(1) Wood Quality and Wood Type is the first and most probably the most important element to a perceived "better tone". This can be substantiated by the reputation of the 1950s-1960s era Fenders and Gibsons that have "The Reputation".

(2) The number of pieces used in the body of the guitar changes "the Wave" if you look at vibrations passing through the guitar body. Heres where you get sh_t tone from 5-7 piece guitar bodies of today. Combine this with cheap woods and you have a nice crappy tone generated from the GLUE holding the guitar body together.

(3) IMHO quartersawn necks pass the vibrations more efficiently to the guitar body and back to the neck. This amounts to great sustain when the body and neck pair are married together appropriately. In addition when manufacturers set out to buy the best quality and most expensive neck woods they usually pick from availiable quarter sawn-stock because this fact is most probably known.

(4) Setneck and neckthrough guitars change the wave of the vibrations again depending on the design of the setneck or neckthrough build. I have found that these two designs are high frequency absorbing..yet thats just my opinion based on the many guitars of this type ive owned. If you keep in mind that most of these Ive owned are mahogany ( les pauls & PRS ), its easy to notice this attribute. Ive yet to play a mapleneck+maplebody neckthrough or set neck guitar so the more common use of the darker tone woods could cloud my assessment.


(5) I have some bolt-on guitars that are mahogany and pretty much get close to that ever so recognizable Gibson tone like Old Sabbath. In my opinion bridge type and fretboard woods play a part also but thats for another thread.

Buy USA Made!

Got some scientificly supported articles that prove that?