Spring tension measuring?

[Cliff]

Hey Javert, the angled springs are stretched more than their straight counterparts in equilibrium, but the overall tension is the same, since it's in equilibrium and the strings are in tune.
Let's say the equilibrium distance from block to claw is 4 inches, the angled spring is 5 inches, and the base of the triangle at the claw is 3 inches (just made up numbers, obviously). Then you whammy down so that the block to claw length extends to, say, 6 inches. Then in the straight spring case the length has gone from 4 to 6 inches, a 50% increase in length and therefore tension. In the angled case, the spring has extended to square root (6*6 + 3*3) = 6.7 inches, an increase of 34%. In other words, it requires less force to move the whammy bar the same amount.

[javert]

Let's say the equilibrium distance from block to claw is 4 inches, the angled spring is 5 inches, and the base of the triangle at the claw is 3 inches (just made up numbers, obviously). Then you whammy down so that the block to claw length extends to, say, 6 inches. Then in the straight spring case the length has gone from 4 to 6 inches, a 50% increase in length and therefore tension. In the angled case, the spring has extended to square root (6*6 + 3*3) = 6.7 inches, an increase of 34%.

You're right. I forgot that I would have to have different distances between the claw and the block to make it balance. However, to find out the force you would need to apply to move the block, you have to consider only the part of the force that applies in the direction of the movement of the block (the orthogonal part would be of no consequence). This projection will make the number even smaller, though and your conclusion would still be valid

[Cliff]

You're right too . I was just about to say that I hadn't considered the perpendicular projection before, but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense. Presumably the tangential components would cancel out.

[javert]

Hm, a consequence of the projection appears to be that, since the involved angles actually change slightly as you press the bar, the required force would change as well, unlike the straight case where the same force would be required throughtout the whole process. I don't know if the angles changes enough for that to be felt, though.

[javert]

Ah, yes... here we are discussing physics and math on a guitar forum on a Friday night (in my case)

[Cliff]

Well, it beats work, which is what I'm supposed to be doing . Nothing like using physics/maths to confirm what we already know, eh?
I'd be tempted to try this on my Jackson, but it's just had a pro setup, and if I have to adjust the claw, I'll likely mess with the intonation, which I don't feel comfortable adjusting. Ah well.

[Argos]

Interesting discussion. However...

Positioning of the trem springs still wouldn't have any effect on the actual tension of the strings. It could affect perceived tension, but only if the action was set extremely high. High enough to affect intonation, in which case the entire set up would be thoroughly incorrect.

[Cliff]

Agreed. We were talking about once you press down on the bar. At that point, the tension on the strings plays no part, and what Javert and I were discussing takes over. Probably. Anyway, you're right: this has nothing to do with Wilkinsi's problem. Sorry for the derail.

[Argos]

Sorry for the derail.

Damn right. No intelligent conversations allowed!

But seriously, by all means. Refreshing to see posts that are more substantial than the usual Reader's Digest/Farmer's Almnac inspired wive's tales.

[javert]

Now, how about them peeps?

[wilkinsi]

Peeps wouldn't look good on a Coral Sea Warrior. Now if I had a white guitar...

[j2379]

I recently got my USA Warrior back, only to find it sounded lifeless, even acoustically. Its obviously not the pickup height or the wiring. The tension in the strings is stronger. Is there a way to measure the amount of tension of the springs under the JT-590, or is it a trial and error thing?

was action lowered much? i usually use 4 springs & don't think the tension effects the tone much. could be different strings same gauge different cores, & Ide raise the action a hair and see if it livens up a bit.