Source for longer Kahler saddle riser screws

[Axewielder]

OK one of the mysteries of Kahlers are those short saddle riser (height) screws (Kahler PN# 8387). Even on guitars without a crazy steep neck angle, they seem conservatively short...and you can easily run out of travel length on them. I've figured out that they are just #4-40x5/16" set screws. I just ordered a box of generic #4-40x3/8" black oxide alloy steel set screws, and they worked like a champ. That gave me an additional .0625" of length, and they cost $9.41 per 100 (versus $1 per 1 ). Here is the source that I used:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FN3V58/ref=oh_details_o02_s01_i00

There is a subtle difference in the point: a cup versus a convex (oval?) shape on the Kahler part. I don't think that matters, really.

They look almost identical and the hex key used to adjust them is the same imperial key size as the Kahler. So, you can mix and match and change only saddles 3-4, or 2-5, or all six like I did.

If anyone wants a set of six, PM my your addy and I'll just mail you some (black oxide, cup point). I have spares!

Here are ones with oval points which I have NOT tried:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005A1BEF4/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

On a semi-related note, those fucking pivot set screws (Kahler PN# 8320) that strip if you look at them funny are #4-40x1/4":

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005A1BDFK/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

I've had good dealings with Wammi World, but come on.

[Newc]

Back when I didn't know any better and had a Kahler that was one of the major issues, even on an LP copy.

The other issues were the crapass behind-the-nut-nut and the ball ends not staying in the cups.

[DonP]

Hey Axe, great news!

I'll pm you. I've got one Kahler functioning on a Model 4. I think it might be a prototype because it's not stamped anywhere, but it is a Kahler, and it came with an extra "block" of brass on the underside that the springs connected to. I had to chisel the Kahler route a little in the Model 4 to get it to drop in.

I have another Kahler body but it needs a paint job.

[bratfink]

Great source but you are missing the fundamental point of setting up a Kahler!

You don't want long screws! You want short ones.

If you are having to raise the saddle blocks across the entire guitar then the kahler is mounted too low. The set screws are only for fine adjustment.

If you need to raise all the saddles that much then what you really should be doing is putting a spacer behind the entire Kahler unit.

One of the reasons for the Kahler issue of going out of tune is saddle height. set them as low as possible and keep those rollers in good order and it becomes a non-issue.

BTW I had to do this on that Model 4 you sent me ;-) As well as replacing those junk brass rollers.

Do I need to do a tech article on how to set up a Kahler???

[Axewielder]

Yeah man I'm aware of the shim fix, and I think that is a good solution as well. In my case, I just needed a half turn more on strings 3 and 4. I will also say that I'm very skeptical that low rollers turn better than high rollers.

[bratfink]

I will also say that I'm very skeptical that low rollers turn better than high rollers.

Two reasons, both related to the fulcrum distance:

1. Reduced force applied to roller shaft
2. Reduced angle of roll during operation.

[MetalMedal II]

I thought that having the roller higher up would be desirable (up to a point). With the roller higher, there would be a larger break angle for the string and allow the string to resonant better. It would be akin to lowering the stoptail of a TOM bridge, increasing the break angle, which a lot of people do for better tone. But, I have no idea how this would affect the tuning stability….honestly, I can’t see it getting any WORSE with a Kahler!

BTW, I do like the flatmount and have a few with them, but know they have limitations. In fact, I only ever custom ordered 1 guitar (Carvin) and ordered it with a Kahler flatmount.

BTW, thanks Axe for the info and offering up some screws. I may hit you up for a set.

[Axewielder]

No prob, just LMK.

I truly apologize to the JCF for starting what amounts to a repackaged version of the endless Les Paul stop bar height debate here!

[Venomboy]

With Kahlers, you want a high roller. I've talked to Gary Kahler about this as well as Neal Moser. In my experience, the ones with the low saddles don't tend to stay in tune and tend to have a duller sound.

[DonP]

No prob, just LMK.

I truly apologize to the JCF for starting what amounts to a repackaged version of the endless Les Paul stop bar height debate here!

Oh, I love that debate. I have one flying high but the rest are on the ground.

I find this debate interesting. The high rollers have merit, but the low rollers do too.

I'll just have to mess with it myself to see if there's a difference.