Charvel USA San Dimas - Floyd springs hitting bottom of route?

[AndyK]

If you:

1) Measure the string height
2) Adjust the neck angle
3) Readjust the trem height so the string height matches step 1

Then, the neck angle does not affect the action.

Does so!

Seriously, as you angle the neck back, it brings the higher fret end UP. You then have to raise the action at the bridge to get the strings higher (my setup). If you angle the neck forward by placing a shim under the headstock side of the cavity, the higher frets get lower, so you have to lower the bridge to compensate. BUT, this is the key, the higher fret action will be HIGHER than it was before, regardless of how low you go with the bridge, since the ANGLE has changed.

[DonP]

Sorry axe, I'm taking Andy's side. Neck angle positively effects action. If you have a zero angle and your Floyd is set high in the air, you have high action. If you change ONLY the neck angle by adding a shim, you have just changed your action because now it is low. So neck angle impacts action and can be used to adjust action.

Didn't Fender come out with MicroTilt?

[AndyK]

Sorry axe, I'm taking Andy's side. Neck angle positively effects action. So neck angle impacts action and can be used to adjust action.

Didn't Fender come out with MicroTilt?

Exactly, except you wouldn't use a Micro Tilt or neck angle adjustment to raise or lower the action - neck angle changes "playability", and the relationship between the action at the 12th and last fret the most.

[Axewielder]

Sorry axe, I'm taking Andy's side. Neck angle positively effects action. If you have a zero angle and your Floyd is set high in the air, you have high action. If you change ONLY the neck angle by adding a shim, you have just changed your action because now it is low. So neck angle impacts action and can be used to adjust action.

Didn't Fender come out with MicroTilt?

So did you not read the part where I said you need to adjust the trem height after changing the neck angle??

Let's try again. Let's say your high E is .070" off the 12th fret and the low E is .075". You shim the neck increase the neck angle, and yes now your action will be lower. Stay with me here. Now you...readjust your bridge height...and set your string heights to be .070" and .075" respectfully. Voila, you are going to have a setup that is virtually identical to how it was before. This bit about the high frets now having a different height than the low or the angle making a difference or whatever is BS. If you really want to split hairs, you may have slightly increased the scale length by doing this on account of the trem posts not being perfectly perpendicular to the fretboard. However we are talking thousands of an inch here, probably not enough to even mess with the intonation. For the same reason, you may need a slight adjustment to re-level the trem baseplate.

[Hellbat]

It's quite clear that an airplane could take off from a moving conveyor belt.



I'm with Axe. If your guitar is set, you change the neck angle, and then set the string height at the last fret to be the same, it should make no difference in string height elsewhere on the neck because the rest of the geometry is the same. Unless you have some willowy wizard neck that sticking a business card under one end requires you to make truss rod adjustments.

[AndyK]

Axe - The part your example is missing is the action in the 22nd fret. Changing the neck angle effects the ratio of the action between the first and the LAST fret. In your example, if your action is 1/16th at the 12th fret and a hair over at the 22nd across all strings, and you reduce the angle of the neck by shimming, then adjust the bridge height to get 1/16th in the 12th fret - the action height at the last fret WILL be higher than it was before you reduced the neck angle. I tried it, i know this to be true. Going the other way, adding a bigger sweep back reduces the action difference bettween the 1st and last frets, regardless of how high the strings are.

[Axewielder]

I tried it, i know this to be true.

Well we've already seen your measuring skills at work earlier in this thread, so...

I'm handing off the baton to anyone else who wants to play here. I've given you the blue pill and the red pill options, and you can believe what you want to believe.

[AndyK]

Check this out!

http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/NeckAngle/index.php

[DalyTek]

Here's the deal. If you want to be able to pull back, you need your Floyd posts high and a 42mm block. And you want a good neck angle for low action with the high Floyd.

If you want no pull back, you want a low neck angle, a 37mm block, and lower your trem posts.

So it's a lot of personal preference. I like having some pull back so I go with a higher Floyd and neck angle.

Oh, so we must be dealing with a non-recessed trem then, I assume?

[AndyK]

Oh, so we must be dealing with a non-recessed trem then, I assume?

Right! Today I changed the block to a 42mm, and it really transformed the guitar. The tone is bigger, the strings feel less stiff. I assume because the springs were being pulled strangely with the too-short block? Now the springs clear the body, and the guitar is much happier! Also, plenty of room for the slightly longer block.