Refinish questions

[xenophobe]

Wouldn't this be avoided if you laid down enough filler/primer coats, sanding down until smooth?

[sully]

Nope.

[ginsambo]

Sorry to hijack the post, but what would you use to fill larger, knotty gaps on a fresh, sanded Swamp Ash body, before or after superglue sealing? Same polyester stopper?...Or Epoxy filler before using a conventional high build primer 2k paint and Poly Laquer? Or my old skateboarding trick of sawdust/woodglue? Is Epoxy filler the go then?

Also I aways have a problem with chip repairs sticking, I guess the thing to do is mix superglue with pigment or just use a drop of glue first?

As for the body, are you sure it isn't just paint surface tension because there are micronic gaps between the filled areas and the body that is causing the problem? Using Sully's advice could you not re rout the filler out to a template and get a block of wood made, using the same template to insert, wood glue and hammer the bastard in there, drum sand it down and drop fill with wicked up superglue to fill up the tiny line and work in more superglue over the bare wood insert and body to prime it, so I guess to do that you'll need to strip it again and ideally have a router table to hand and a small bandsaw to remove the excess meat from the wood inserts first. Use over thick wood inserts, raised a mm or so and drops of superglue to hold the MDF templates on them. I guess it is small enough that if you are brave, you could use an upturned router in a vice with the switch taped on, if you incorporate a floor mains kill switch, which your foot can access if you start routing your hand by accident, or if the piece flies up, rebounds off a wall and takes out an eye or something. What did you use to fill the pup holes with?

BTW, Sully is right though, you always notice even the 2/3pc body joints which become noticeably on old Japanese Jacksons, especially on basswood.....apart from from my Model 1 which still looks new and is unsunk.....what did they do there then....Magic? Maybe the wood was more seasoned, but maybe....I'd love to know what prep/primer combination they used back in '80's Japan....or is it just a question of more primer stages and intersanding, more paint coats and TLC Labour?

Personally I would use a template jig for making the same wood inserts and use veneer on top of that, although that on it's own would do if you had the size spot on and used the same type of wood.

Or say fuck it, and if the body contours allow, make a trace of the routs, get the top planed off 1/4" and put a Maple Cap on it? That would be cool and expensive looking and to buy a body like that made up would set you back some, so it would be worth it.

Wicking superglue would hopefully fill the tiny gap between filler and wood though and eliminate the surface tension build that you are getting.

Guessing here, but water does have a higher surface tension than 2k solvents, ie. a bigger raised bubble on the joints.

Rather than drum sanding, use a long flat block and block sand by hand, as you would on a car and use many light strokes.




Going back to my car bodging days, where I had similar problems trying to feather bondo and plastic padding laid over paint, which will never work as it will never properly adhere and needs to go over clean metal, in short, I would say two things are going on here.

1) The body (Particularly on the inside of the Pup routs), hasn't been stripped sufficiently and effectively, you are trying to adhere filler to paint at the edges of the fill, consequently you are not getting adhesion, the filler is lifting away, so micro lines are forming, which in turn, together with the higher vicousity of the water based paint are causing raised lines with your paint coat - strip body completely and use wood inserts made to an oversize template, use same template to rout an oversize cavity to reveal bare wood for the wood glue to adhere to and finish with wicked superglue. The template can be any shape or size, so long as it is bigger than the original pup rout. Rounded edges to a template are always a good idea too.

2) Drum sanding is taking too much filler material away as it is softer - block sand gently by hand.

[rdamaral]

spraying a couple layers of finish and blocking by hand appears to be working. The last few coats I have brushed on and blocked by hand and it looks a lot better.

I will update this weekend when I start on her again...

[sully]

Sorry to hijack the post, but what would you use to fill larger, knotty gaps on a fresh, sanded Swamp Ash body, before or after superglue sealing? Same polyester stopper?...Or Epoxy filler before using a conventional high build primer 2k paint and Poly Laquer? Or my old skateboarding trick of sawdust/woodglue? Is Epoxy filler the go then?

If you’re working with Swamp Ash (or Mahogany, Spanish Cedar, or anything else that has open pores), Z-Poxy is your friend. You can get it at lmii.com It’s an epoxy resin, but sands way nicer. If you’ve got some small knots to fill, you can do it with CA glue buildups, dust + glue, etc. I’d do what you can to keep the medium the same, though. If you were planning on doing CA pore filling, you might as well use it to fill the knots.

[sully]

spraying a couple layers of finish and blocking by hand appears to be working. The last few coats I have brushed on and blocked by hand and it looks a lot better.

I will update this weekend when I start on her again...

Glad you're seeing some improvement, but remember that lacquer will shrink back; you may see that it sinks after a few weeks.

[rdamaral]

Glad you're seeing some improvement, but remember that lacquer will shrink back; you may see that it sinks after a few weeks.

I guess we will see. I'm doing two fusions at once. The other (HSS) is getting finish layers of clear this weekend hopefully. I'm gonna keep plugging away on it, and see how it comes out.

This one will stay with me, as I've wanted a single Hum guitar for a while, so If it has minor imperfections, it wont be the end of the world. It's really for the learning, not to say that I don't want it perfect.

[ginsambo]

Many thanks Sully, got the z-POXY on your advice previously. Will do the skateboard trick, except using Z-Poxy, rather use one sealer anyhow. Body turned up today, not too bad....weirdly light though - 4.4lbs only for a swamp ash Strat Hardtail.

Next job on the Fusion has gotta be snakeskin paint and a how to thread!

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I might even give my own advice a go with the routing inserts, see if it works or not, was a thread on here somewhere when someone blocked the holes with wood, turned out really smart.

[Learn Guitars]

One point that was mentioned is pretty crucial. I route the holes slightly bigger, so it is a wood on wood fit in the plug. That is often the first place guys make mistakes is filling in the p/u cavity right over the old finish that is inside it.

[sully]

Many thanks Sully, got the z-POXY on your advice previously. Will do the skateboard trick, except using Z-Poxy, rather use one sealer anyhow. Body turned up today, not too bad....weirdly light though - 4.4lbs only for a swamp ash Strat Hardtail.

Happy to have been of assistance. Swamp Ash is very lightweight, though, so don't be surprised. The Norther Ash is the heavy stuff.

Sully

[coloradoman25]

time for a sweet sticker to cover the shrink back lol

[rdamaral]

I got some shellac based primer yesterday and laid that down before I continued with more base coat. It seemed to help a lot. Next I will let the base coat cure for the week, block it smooth and start with the clear. I will update later in the week as the base coat cures. But as of last night, it was looking much better.