[Pics & screw-torial] My failed attempt at "ebonizing" a rosewood fretboard.

[Number Of The Priest]

About 12 years ago, I attempted to "ebonize" a rosewood fretboard using the "steel wool and vinegar" recipe. That failed, because recent Google research tells me the mixture needs to chemically react with the high tannin content in certain woods to turn it black. I don't think rosewood has a high tannin content.

A few months ago, I bought used Yamaha FG700MS in practically mint condition for CAD$100 (no case). Seen below, its rosewood fretboard and rosewood bridge would serve as an inexpensive test bed for this ebonizing project. If successful, I hoped to stain the rosewood fretboard on my Jackson KE3.



I wanted a simple procedure to stain a rosewood board black and decided that this Les Paul owner's success (http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212455) using the Minwax Wood Finish Stain Marker (http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...h-stain-marker) would be ideal, and it would only cost CAD$7.50 for the marker from The Home Depot.

Since that Les Paul owner didn't outline any instructions, I followed the general procedure given on the StewMac site for their ebony stain (http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and...ard_Stain.html) as follows:

1) Clean the wood with naphtha and sand to 600-grit.
2) Mask off the nut, binding and anything you don't want to stain.
3) Wear gloves. Apply with a brush or cloth.
4) Let the board dry overnight.
5) When dry, rub off excess pigment with a slightly damp cloth.
6) Let the board dry overnight again.
7) Rub with 0000 steel wool to burnish and remove any last pigment.

However, I modified the procedure. Instead of sanding, I used 0000 steel wool. Instead of applying one coat, I wanted to follow the Les Paul owner's example and apply multiple coats, three in total. Sometimes I had to allow multiple overnights for drying instead of one night. I rubbed off excess pigment with a dry cloth for the first two coats, and rubbed with a slightly damp cloth after the third coat.

Pic results below.



Figure 1. Masking off areas I didn't want to touch with naphtha, 0000 steel wool, or marker stain.




Figure 2. First coat of Minwax ebony marker on odd numbered frets for direct comparison with untreated even numbered frets. I also stained the bridge but showing it is not useful for this comparison.




Figure 3. After the first coat dried overnight, I rubbed the first fret with a dry cloth. It looks like the rubbing action removed much of the stain, compared to the third fret which I hadn't yet rubbed. Compare both to the untreated even numbered frets. I rubbed all the odd frets and applied a second coat of stain, leaving it for two overnights. Rubbed and got similar results. Third coat, three overnights (was busy), damp-rubbed, and got similar results. By now my marker was running dry.




Figure 4. This is after the third coat, damp-rub, and steel wool burnishing.




Figure 5. Closer view after the third coat, damp-rub, and steel wool burnishing.




Figure 6. Closer view after the third coat, damp-rub, and steel wool burnishing. I've reached the end of the StewMac procedure (with three coats) and am disappointed with the inconsistency of the staining results.




Figure 7. By now, I give up and resume my normal restringing procedure of applying lemon oil to the ENTIRE fretboard (and bridge) and rubbing off the excess. At least the fretboard doesn't look as parched.




Figure 8. Same as Figure 7.




Figure 9. Same as Figure 7.




Conclusion and notes:

1) This experiment was a failure.

2) The marker stain was easy to apply and you don't need to be overly careful. You can apply it over the fretboard inlays and the frets themselves and it won't really cling to them. It came off rather easily with the cloth rubbing, but I've also heard a pencil eraser will do the same.

3) The actual work is not particularly time-consuming because of the above. It took mere minutes to apply stain and perform the rubbing. Most of the time is spent during the overnights while waiting for each coat to dry, so this took me about a week total.

4) I have no idea why I got inconsistent results between frets. Some fretboard areas took the stain well, while others were patchy.

5) I'll just appreciate the beauty and grain of rosewood as-is until shown a repeatable, proven, simple procedure for dyeing a rosewood fretboard black.

[rjohnstone]

Steel wool won't open up the pores of the wood like 600 grit sandpaper would.
With the steel wool, you were essentially polishing the board more than anything else.
But with the sandpaper comes the risk of damaging the inlays.
Just a thought, but if you were to experiment more, sandpaper would be where I would start.

[Number Of The Priest]

I had it in my mind that both sandpaper and steel wool were for cleaning (in addition to the naphtha) in step 1. I might have to follow the instructions properly next time.

[xenophobe]

This is what I'd do.

Sand, get it rouged to I dunno 100-200ish.

Clean with acetone or MEK. Naptha leaves residue, rosewood is naturally oily so using naptha to prep rosewood isn't really good. It does not take stain very well, you need to open up the grain as much as you can and dry it out.

Apply.... and then polish the fretboard with dry 0000 steel wool. Hoping you can seal some of that into the grain. Then apply another coat or three with the minwax pen.

I would not scrub the fretboard. Just try to get a coat to dry where it won't easily rub off. I've done one neck like this and it's fairly stable and stain has not rubbed off on my fingertips. But I am not acid fingers... your skin pH may be responsible for how well it works for you.

[paranoid]

just color the rose wood with a black sharpie.

[Number Of The Priest]

Thanks xeno. Everything you outlined makes perfect sense. I might have to try that.

paranoid, I've also read about the black Sharpie method. Have you tried it?

[Mudlark]

I tried the sharpie...came off on my fingers and kinda' looked blue.

I used the minwax stain on my DKMGT. I never used sandpaper or wool to prep or during application. The board was very clean, though. After 3 coats it looks like really dark rosewood with no residue on my fingers. Not a great pic, but you can see it compared to the Soloist's ebony.
I just dabbed it on with a cotton swap...thick coats, but not running everywhere-thick. Waited 10 minutes then wiped of the excess. It was playable the next day. I did the second and third coats over the next month.
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[xenophobe]

Thanks xeno. Everything you outlined makes perfect sense. I might have to try that.

paranoid, I've also read about the black Sharpie method. Have you tried it?

Black sharpie will show purple hues, it's really a horrible look when the light hits it right.

I can take a picture and show you, I have the same minwax paint stain type pen you have. It works, but you have to realize rosewood is a wood that doesn't really take staining well so most of the color will have to rest on top of the wood, not actually be stainable like ebony, which is a dry and more open grain wood that is absorbent.

[BlackRR]

I wouldn't use sandpaper as you will see all the cross grain sand marks once you apply a dark finish no matter the grit and stain is probably not the right product for what your trying to do, if not coated it has no durability to stand up to use and by nature of the type wood one tries to use stain won't take on any color it will just sit on top like paint would. I would try using a black dye instead, I think it is actually a leather dye but there may be other types that do the same. After reading this post I tried an experiment on a piece of rosewood with black die and it seemed to take nicely and stay fairly black after rubbing with a paper towel, unfortunately your main problem might be that after years of playing the wood has absobed oil from your skin which could now be acting like a barrier preventing any product from working properly.

[xenophobe]

From what I understand Minwax Ebony Stain Marker uses the same dye as in Fiebing’s Leather Dye, which is probably what you're referring to. It's just formulated with a little bit of lacquer to help finish it, if I remember correctly. If you use Fiebing's you need to seal it. If you use the stain marker, you do not.

At least tjat's from what I remember about maintenance and repair of my Ibanez M8M from the guy who does all the service for Meshuggah. Maybe I'm wrong. It happens every once in a great while.

And sandpaper shouldn't leave marks, you should rough the whole surface, dye it then buff out that roughness with 0000 steel wool. Might work.

Rosewood won't really absorb much. Set a guitar down, put a drop of lemon oil on it, come back hours later. It will still be there.

['84RR]

While I don't have a specific product to recommend, I can say that Minwax is the WRONG product. It has a sealer mixed in with it and that means you really can't add more coats and have it darken more...stain soaks into wood (to varying degrees depending upon the woods (duh) and whether or not the stain is a wiping (basically just on the surface and great for blotchy woods like cherry and maple) or penetrating (which gives a far deeper look compared to wiping stains which tend to kind of kill the figure in grain)

[xenophobe]

You can do several coats with the Minwax pen on rosewood, I know, I've done it... no reason why I would lie about it. Because it also has solvent in it, you need to let it fully dry before you add additional coats and you need to do it lightly or it will cut through the coats underneath it. Rosewood is considered an oily wood and closed grain. Most guitar hardwoods are open grain and accept stain.

['84RR]

the solvents (aliphatic) used in Minwax stains is basically mineral spirits...mineral spirits does NOT eat into itself like lacquer thinner (acetone, etc).

look, I've been a carpenter for over 30 years...I know various things NOT to do in the finish process...

you know what happens when you add some more Minwax (50/50 mix of red mahogany and red oak) over a nice mahogany bar top because you want it darker??? what happens is that after you coat it with poly one can take their thumb nail and peel off the finish...why???, because finishes don't stick worth a flip to a layer of what is pretty similar to DIRT...finish bonds to solid surfaces, and a nice thick layer of pigment is NOT the type of thing you want to trust for a good finish...BTW, I'm not the one who pulled that stunt, just the one who took a 21' long bar, cut it at a panel joint on it's stand, added 9' to it, redid the top, etc...NOW, the bars I made to match that one in the same commercial setting, with 15 coats of PPG DCA468 lacquer only failed 10 year later when some motard left a rag full of GooOff on one of the tops...that ate right into the very expensive finish...

anyway, I wasn't calling you a liar...you certainly CAN add more, but it is NOT going to stick worth a flip because the stuff has a finish in it also, and finished are hard...just how well does stain stick to a piece of glass?????

anyway, whatever...30 years of experience and I'm the liar eh????

[Mudlark]

All I can say is I put 3 coats of minwax ebony stain on my guitar pictured above and each coat made in noticeably darker. I'm certain a 4th coat would darken it more. None of it came off on my hands.

I recently got an Iceman with dark rosewood that only needed 2 coats. I'd hoped for 1 coat, but it needed the 2nd to achieve the darkness I was looking for.

BUT, I didn't sand/steel wool between coats. Why? Because the directions on the can said not to sand between coats.

[murkat]

http://www.kiwicare.com/en-us/products/kiwi-color-shine