String tightness on guitar with Floyd Rose

[PoopHead]

Hey Guys, rookie question here...

So on my soloist I've noticed that the strings on this thing are way harder to bend than on my other Jackson that is also equipped with a floyd rose. The thing about this one is that I'm in standard tuning, 9-42, 3 springs on the back, you know standard stuff basically. On my other jackson I can bend the hell out of those strings whether it's in standard or half step down or whatever. Funny thing is on that guitar I got 4 springs in the back and doesn't give me any resistance there. Whats going on here? Both guitars have low action and same string guage is there something else I'm missing here?

[Axewielder]

I think it's mostly a feel thing, the trem will detune a bit when you bend so there's a bit of give to it. But you have to bend farther to compensate and hit the same note, so the trem really doesn't make it easier to bend.

[metalhobo]

for an ideal string the pitch is basically a function of mass, length, and tension. assuming the mass and vibrating length of the string are constant for a bent note (the former is obvious, the latter is a simplification), we know that the tension on the string when bent to pitch is going to be the same for both a hard tail and a floating bridge. so the force to bend the note is the same. the difference is in the bent distance. you have to overcome an increase in distance proportional to the displacement of the bridge's springs. this distance is related to the spring constant of said springs. we all know that work is equal to force by distance. as said, the force is the same, but with the floating bridge, the distance is increased, and thus the work (energy required to bend) also increased.

so how to decrease the work (energy)? well, remember I said that distance is related to the spring constant. so what we need to do is increase the spring constant by either installing more springs, or by replacing with stiffer springs. this will decrease the distance to bend.

[PoopHead]

for an ideal string the pitch is basically a function of mass, length, and tension. assuming the mass and vibrating length of the string are constant for a bent note (the former is obvious, the latter is a simplification), we know that the tension on the string when bent to pitch is going to be the same for both a hard tail and a floating bridge. so the force to bend the note is the same. the difference is in the bent distance. you have to overcome an increase in distance proportional to the displacement of the bridge's springs. this distance is related to the spring constant of said springs. we all know that work is equal to force by distance. as said, the force is the same, but with the floating bridge, the distance is increased, and thus the work (energy required to bend) also increased.

so how to decrease the work (energy)? well, remember I said that distance is related to the spring constant. so what we need to do is increase the spring constant by either installing more springs, or by replacing with stiffer springs. this will decrease the distance to bend.

Hey man thanks for the input. For the stiffer springs do you mean the heavy duty ones? or something else?

[Guitarkid8]

Never thought about this because I always thought of the tension as X number that it has to be to balance the bridge, has to be the same,however how the bridge reacts to changes in tension has me thinking.

2 springs almost max adjustment vs
5 springs minimum adjustment

both will exert the same tension needed to balance the bridge (in theory, depending on strings etc).

When doing bends, the bridge typically pulls up. Example 1 the springs are almost maxed out so any more force on the string end (bend) would overcome the springs easily and the bridge would pull forward.
Example 2 would have much more energy left "unused", and a bend would be met with ever increasing resistance.


I need to order some springs...

[metalhobo]

Hey man thanks for the input. For the stiffer springs do you mean the heavy duty ones? or something else?

I could've sworn I'd seen someone who makes stiffer springs for Floyds, but I can't find them. looks like your best best is gonna be to install more springs. try four, then five. you'll have to adjust the spring claw position and retune each time.

[toejam]

I could've sworn I'd seen someone who makes stiffer springs for Floyds, but I can't find them. looks like your best best is gonna be to install more springs. try four, then five. you'll have to adjust the spring claw position and retune each time.

They do have "heavy duty" springs. I bought a set of the red noiseless heavy springs a few months back. Technically, they're just shorter than regular springs, so that's the only reason they're giving more pull on the trem. Two can be used instead of three or four. I actually only use one in the middle of my G&L Legacy with its two regular springs. If I were to use another, I'd have to have the claw screws backed out a lot.

http://www.fu-tone.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=74

https://www.amazon.com/Floyd-Rose-Noiseless-Tremolo-Springs/dp/B00XQCAYVO?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00XQCAYVO

https://floydrose.com/products/frtsn

[PoopHead]

They do have "heavy duty" springs. I bought a set of the red noiseless heavy springs a few months back. Technically, they're just shorter than regular springs, so that's the only reason they're giving more pull on the trem. Two can be used instead of three or four. I actually only use one in the middle of my G&L Legacy with its two regular springs. If I were to use another, I'd have to have the claw screws backed out a lot.

http://www.fu-tone.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=74

https://www.amazon.com/Floyd-Rose-Noiseless-Tremolo-Springs/dp/B00XQCAYVO?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00XQCAYVO

https://floydrose.com/products/frtsn

I thought the heavy duty springs were for people who use thicker guage strings?

[XSvmbraDensX]

I have several of the heavy duty noiseless springs in a few of my guitars and I enjoy the fact that they kill any string reverberations, especially in my 7-strings since I had to use about 5 normal springs previously to achieve the desired tension. FU-Tone also offers noiseless springs in different tensions(light, normal, heavy, extra heavy). They're well worth the swap in my book.

[toejam]

I thought the heavy duty springs were for people who use thicker guage strings?

They could be. Some people just like more tension. I've always preferred 4 or 5 springs on my Floyds because I liked the stiffer feel.

[PoopHead]

They could be. Some people just like more tension. I've always preferred 4 or 5 springs on my Floyds because I liked the stiffer feel.

Ah ok I see

[PoopHead]

I think I got it. I'm assuming the tightness has to do with how close my trem claw was to the actually body. The screws almost went all the way in on my soloist. Now they are not as close and with some adjustments this seems to have done the trick quite abit. It's still a little tighter than i'd like but man is there a difference. Thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate all the knowledge and help.