Help!! I broke a screw off in my guitar!

[Nightbat]

Don’t knock it until you try it. I was surprised at the effect the first time I tried it.

I sincerely doubt those screws and claws would impact the sound on a level humans can discern, especially when you have a couple of springs mucking up the transportation of vibrations
The Floyd posts? Yeah, maybe, because those are in solid contact with the body, but their difference to normal studs is so little, even that would be hard to make an audible difference
If you want a warmer tone which (lots of) brass will create (if you know a little about the tonal difference between steel and brass resonators, that should be obvious) you might just as well settle for a more mellow set of strings

[CaptNasty]

I sincerely doubt those screws and claws would impact the sound on a level humans can discern, especially when you have a couple of springs mucking up the transportation of vibrations
The Floyd posts? Yeah, maybe, because those are in solid contact with the body, but their difference to normal studs is so little, even that would be hard to make an audible difference
If you want a warmer tone which (lots of) brass will create (if you know a little about the tonal difference between steel and brass resonators, that should be obvious) you might just as well settle for a more mellow set of strings

One the one hand we have someone who has never tried to compare different tremolo claw materials yet decides to doubt with no experience to back up that opinion.

On the other hand we have someone who has actually done the upgrade and not only can hear the difference, but also took spectrum measurements both before and after the upgrade that revealed differences in frequency response and sustain.

Just another online gear conversation where someone feels the need to infuse their “common sense” opinion that is completely devoid of any benefit of actual experience regarding the gear being discussed.

The saddle absorbs energy from the strings, the saddle transmits energy to the baseplate, the baseplate transfers energy to the sustain block and posts, the sustain block transfers energy to the springs, the springs transfer energy to the claw, the claw transfers energy to the screws and finally the posts and the screws transfer energy to the guitar body. The screws are in fact in “solid contact” with the body, unless there is some whiz bang quantum mechanics virtually coupling the screws to the body.

That energy that reaches the screws does not return back through the system to the base plate, it transfers to a location of lower energy... the guitar body. There are only two paths for energy to enter the body of the guitar from the bridge, the posts and the tremolo screws (unless your tremolo is blocked, then the block becomes another conduit of energy transfer).

According to your logic, sustain blocks would play no role in shaping tone... which they do. Also where would the energy entering the sustain block move to? Not back to the baseplate, it is going to migrate to a place of lower energy... the tremolo springs and so on. Until it reaches the body, where the energy will dissipate into the environment though resonance.

[LaoWai]

Hey, how about switching to a schaller sure claw?
Doh!

[Nightbat]

One the one hand we have someone who has never tried to compare different tremolo claw materials yet decides to doubt with no experience to back up that opinion.

On the other hand we have someone who has actually done the upgrade and not only can hear the difference, but also took spectrum measurements both before and after the upgrade that revealed differences in frequency response and sustain.

Just another online gear conversation where someone feels the need to infuse their “common sense” opinion that is completely devoid of any benefit of actual experience regarding the gear being discussed.

Well, I'll be waiting for the footage of your spectrum tests

...or is this one of those online gear conversations where people can't back up their "expert claims" with any evidence?

[CaptNasty]

Well, I'll be waiting for the footage of your spectrum tests

...or is this one of those online gear conversations where people can't back up their "expert claims" with any evidence?

Never claimed to be an expert. I said I had actual experience.

As for video footage. It was something I did years ago. Even had I taken video, I probably wouldn’t know where to find it at this pont. But then again, this is not a court proceeding.

So we are still right where I said we were: A guy on the internet with actual experience and a guy on the internet with nothing but an opinion.

If this is something that is “not for you”, I get it. There is nothing wrong with that, but no one here is trying to force you to use a brass claw. To come and flatly declare your lack of experience in this topic and then decry it “snake oil” based only on your opinion, well that is a different story. Luckily our ancestors had a greater sense of curiosity and acceptance of new ideas, otherwise we would still be running around naked in the woods eating uncooked foods. Then again, maybe that wouldn’t be such a bad thing...

[Nightbat]

Never claimed to be an expert. I said I had actual experience.

As for video footage. It was something I did years ago. Even had I taken video, I probably wouldn’t know where to find it at this pont. But then again, this is not a court proceeding.

If this is something that is “not for you”, I get it. There is nothing wrong with that, but no one here is trying to force you to use a brass claw. To come and flatly declare your lack of experience in this topic and then decry it “snake oil” based only on your opinion, well that is a different story. Luckily our ancestors had a greater sense of curiosity and acceptance of new ideas, otherwise we would still be running around naked in the woods eating uncooked foods. Then again, maybe that wouldn’t be such a bad thing...

Oh look, no evidence, how surprising

So we are still right where I said we were: A guy on the internet with actual experience and a guy on the internet with nothing but an opinion.

No, I make the assumption, you call me ignorant, you make the claim, yet only come up with bullshit
We have past the point where you should have put your money where your mouth is, but didn't deliver and tried brushing me off with an appeal to authority and a red herring

[CaptNasty]

I have just as much evidence as you... and your lack of evidence does not stop you from speaking your opinion as fact. You too have failed to put your money where your mouth is. Where is your proof that this is snake oil? Your entire argument at this point is nothing but an attempt to construct a straw man to distract from your inability to advance your statements beyond the realm of opinion and conjecture.

As for this notion that I should tear down my instruments and replicate an experiement I did years ago, just to satisy Nightbat’s lack of curiosity: that is neither reasonable nor realistic.

No one called you ignorant either. I said you are lackkng curiosity and are closed to new ideas. Statements that I stand by given your comments in this thread.

You have serious issues dude.

[metalhobo]

the onus of evidence lies on the person making the claim. here, that person is CaptNasty making the claim that a brass claw has significant effect of guitar sound. Nightbat, however, makes no claim; he expresses skepticism of CaptNasty's claim. skepticism requires no evidence. in fact, skepticism is supported by a lack of evidence. the only one here with issues is CaptNasty.

[LaoWai]

the only one here with issues is CaptNasty.

I have issues, unrelated though

[Axewielder]

the onus of evidence lies on the person making the claim. here, that person is CaptNasty making the claim that a brass claw has significant effect of guitar sound. Nightbat, however, makes no claim; he expresses skepticism of CaptNasty's claim. skepticism requires no evidence. in fact, skepticism is supported by a lack of evidence. the only one here with issues is CaptNasty.

Well said, yes this is basically a Russell's teapot situation.

But...if we're shutting down every sketchy unfalsifiable claim regarding tone on the JCF, there goes all those "tube amp" threads.

[Nightbat]

I have just as much evidence as you... and your lack of evidence does not stop you from speaking your opinion as fact. You too have failed to put your money where your mouth is. Where is your proof that this is snake oil?

Don't need to, the claim is that that stuff improves/changes your guitar tone, I have no reason to accept this without proof.

Your entire argument at this point is nothing but an attempt to construct a straw man to distract from your inability to advance your statements beyond the realm of opinion and conjecture.

My assumption is that, even though the density of brass is higher than steel (+/- 8%), the amount of material (especially considering its total amount in the sum of all parts), the fact that more mass requires more energy to move and it's location behind three springs that diminish travel of vibrations,
makes it suspect that the change of these specific parts will have a discernible change in sound that can be picked up by the human ear.

And my argument was just about the claw and screws being a bridge too far, I'm willing to accept brass blocks might have an impact: they are bigger, heavier and have a closer/more solid contact to the guitar/source of vibration - It's also quite easy to find vids showing these differences

Your argument boils down to the being umpteenth internet bigmouth that argues from authority, acting condescending to his detractor to appear superior, with nothing to back up his bullshit.

What I use is skepticism by logical reasoning, what you want is that I accept your word on faith.

As for this notion that I should tear down my instruments and replicate an experiement I did years ago, just to satisy Nightbat’s lack of curiosity: that is neither reasonable nor realistic.

Because no one is capable of plugging in his guitar in a computer, downloading a spectrum analyzer/oscilloscope, grab his cellphone, record a session with steel parts on camera, change out the parts to brass, record again and post it on the internet
Oddly enough, except the parts, I have all that stuff at my disposal, and would take me about an evening of work, so I could do it, but I'm not required to prove me wrong, that would be you

No one called you ignorant either. I said you are lackkng curiosity and are closed to new ideas.

Really?
Because you said:

completely devoid of any benefit of actual experience

Which is nothing more than semantics for calling someone ignorant

and calling someone "closed to new ideas" is nothing more than calling them willfully ignorant

Statements that I stand by given your comments in this thread.

I'm sure you do, your ego wouldn't allow anything else

You have serious issues dude.

Nope, I'm willing to accept I'm wrong, so now instead of you acting like a blowhard, put up or shut up!

[CaptNasty]

What I use is skepticism by logical reasoning, what you want is that I accept your word on faith.

I asked you to accept nothing. I responded to the OP. You made a statement of opinion as did I. I don’t care what type of claw you use, I have no dog in that hunt. I don’t care if you believe that it makes a difference in tone or not. I am confident that it does.

As for this proof shit that you wanted to go off on a tangent with. Internet forums are a place for people to share their experiences. They are not a court of law. This entire forum is chock full of people’s opinions. You gave your opinion, I gave mine and here we are. As I said before I am not going to remove a claw from any of my instruments just to run an experiment that was run years ago... particularly when I no longer have access to oscilloscopes.

As for the calling you ignorant, I can see how you could take it that way. It was not my intent to say you are ignorant. What I was trying to say with the curiosity thing was put forth poorly, for that I apologize to you. I will not belabor that point any further. But as for brass tremolo claws, I stand by my experience.

[Nightbat]

Since it's clear which choice you made from the last line in my previous reply, fine

I'd have no trouble agreeing to disagree IF you were presenting your opinion as just that: Your Opinion, instead you presented it as an unfalsifiable fact,
backing it up with pretentiousness and derision instead of evidence, with ultimately an excuse on the level of "The dog ate my homework" and even after that, you tried to paint yourself as the one holding the truth in hand
That we're "Not in a courtroom" doesn't make your claim any more supported, only less, if that's all you can come up with to defend it

Now you come with some half-arsed apology, because your replies, where given, were clear accusations on me lacking knowledge or resisting the chance to gain knowledge
this is not a case of me mistakenly "taking it that way", even a blind man could read it without it being in braille
And then, it's very simple: you can't call something an apology if it goes in a roundabout way still trying to shove the guilt in the other's shoes

Maybe I could borrow you some of that "Common Sense" you accused me of having, for when people blow holes in my unsupported arguments and I'm being a dick about it, even I will get the hint at a certain point
and either sincerely apologize about it, or quietly exit stage left*
Disclaimer: *I mean this about the conversation, not in general

[xenophobe]

A lot of things can alter the tone of an instrument, it's completely subjective as to whether it's actually better or not. A lot of tone chasers are busy tone chasing and justifying expensive purchases for minor changes. If it makes you happy, that's all that matters. Or you could get a nice eq.

[Nightbat]

A lot of things can alter the tone of an instrument, it's completely subjective as to whether it's actually better or not.

I'll agree to that subjectivity of "better ort not", whether all things are able to change the tone of an instrument is not that subjective
I couldn't care less that an 87.3% Osmium/11.7% nickel/1%uranium leftwinded philipshead 2.1" screw (hex doesn't work) gives a 0.003dB increase in the 31Khz range
when ears don't hear more than +/-20Khz, or that the human ear isn't even capable of detecting less than 1dB difference in volume

A lot of tone chasers are busy tone chasing and justifying expensive purchases for minor changes. If it makes you happy, that's all that matters. Or you could get a nice eq.

Oh, all the more power to those that like to tinker with their toys, but in the least they could remain honest when a modification doesn't seem to have any effect
like me rotating my JB in the bridge to temper the highs, if it did, certainly not enough to swap it later anyway
I've come across this too much on bike forums already, people talking out of their butt-dyno "Totaly feeling the added powah" after swapping their valve covers from plastic to aluminum
(ofcourse no print outs available,... figures)
Hell, I myself wasn't that happy when my $50 airfilter had a more discernible (dynamometer measured) power gain than my $250 velocity stacks, but it was what it was